Where's all the heat going?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK. Let's see if you fellers can solve the riddle of the missing heat.

I'm heating with a VC Montpelier insert. My home is a 1958 two story 4 bedroom and 2000 sq. ft. above ground.

My windows are newer, although I think they are worse than some old windows. They're vinyl double pain, but some have leaks. They're Genteks, if anyone has ever heard of that window manufacturer.

I have a stone chase on the north side of the house that extends to the top of the second story. The chase contains three flues, one for the living room fireplace (the one with the Montpelier), one for a basement fireplace, and the third for the old boiler. Only the one flue is in use currently, this flue is lined with unfaced fiberglass batting between liner and clay tile. The other two flues are open at the top with a little fiberglass batting plugging the openings in the house.

The house is on the southeast corner of a large school playground so it gets blasted with any westerly or northwesterly winds (nice in summer, cold in winter).

To the best of my knowledge the attic is properly insulated, don't know about the walls.

I checked some natural gas bills from before I installed the Monty and I was burning 200 to 250 therms a month in the Dec. - Feb period. I estimate that to be around 1 cord per month. That's a bit much for Central Wisconsin, don't you think?

Where's my heat going? Out the windows? Up the flues? Through the walls?

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Oh. I forgot to include. . . We just burned through 1/2 facecord of oak in 3 days! Last year I dismissed the poor efficiency as due to wet wood since we frequently had brown-stained glass. But now the glass has been crytal clean and we're going through the wood.

 

[CodyWayne718]

Either the chimney or the walls would be my guess. My house was built in 1956 I do believe, we are about the same square footage with just as many flues and everything. I blew insulation in the attic about 2 feet deep and really cant tell it now but in the summer I could tell cause the upstairs wouldnt get real hot from the afternoon sun. My walls arent insulated, this is just my guess. Has the home been remodeled?

 

[MikeP]

I would say lack of insulation most likely. Although I'm on the east coast, I'll assume building practices are more era driven more so, than area. After dealing with three homes built in the '50s, (my moms house, prior rental, and current home) 2 of them the rental and current home were both inulated with what appears to be maybe 1 1/2" fiberglass type insulation, when originally built, walls and ceiling. My moms house was built originally with ZERO insulation. Current house at some time had the walls and attic filled with blown in cellulose, plus a layer of foam board under new siding.

My suggestion would be to check the attic,(easy) and add insulation if less than 12" (your choice fiber batts, blown fiberglass or cellulose) there's always an argument whats better but all are better than whats usually there. Next would be walls, not the easiest to do on a finished home, but can still be done...

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Oh. I also forgot to mention. . . The wood burner doesn't heat 'round the clock either.


My family stays home during the day so it heats from morning through sometime after bedtime. I load it up before going to bed then let it go. In the morning the boiler has usually kicked in because the insert no longer puts out enough heat. So we're still using up to 100 therms of gas per month for heating even with burning.

Cody, yes the home has had some updates. But it's not like it's been gutted and rebuilt. So do you burn as much wood as it looks I'm in for?

 

[CodyWayne718]

This is my first whole season burning but it sure seems like this tiny little stove goes thru a lot of wood. Like Mike said, I would start with the insulation.

 

[fishingpol]

Start with either an IR thermometer around all of your doors and windows. Worn door weatherstripping can lead to air infiltration very easily. You can also use an incense stick in the same areas and see if air is being pushed around. See if there is an energy audit program available, they can offer great savings seal a house up nicely. One home repair show from our area said that if you added up all the air leaks in an average home, the total would be like having a 6 inch hole in your wall from the outside. It is not a bad thing to have some air leaks for make-up air for heating devices. Look into shrink-wrap clear window plastic kits for a few rooms. I did that several years ago and it did help.

 

[begreen]

Is there a block-off plate below the damper?

 

[MikeP]

I'll also add, that I'm heating a 1200 sq ft ranch from the basement, so basically 2400 sq ft.... House is all electric including the heating system which is electric thermal storage, with electric hot water boiler for back up. Prior owners were using 3000-4000kw during the winter months, and I have no clue what the house temps were. Biggest bill last winter we used 1100kw. Also burned about 3.5 cords of not so great and not so well seasoned wood. Looking like (hoping/planning ;-) )3 cords of 2 year dry wood this year, and less electric. Basements temp is usually upper 70s to lower 80s when the stoves cranking, and main floor is lower to mid 70's.

 

[jharkin]

My house is smaller than yours (1400ft2) and I burn 160-180 therms a month when I'm burning wood on weekends. Without wood Id be burning as much gas as you in a smaller house.

Lots of possibilities... The insulation may not be great. You may have air leaks all over the place. How old is the boiler, maybe its not very efficient...

 

[branchburner]

The chase contains three flues, one for the living room fireplace (the one with the Montpelier), one for a basement fireplace, and the third for the old boiler. Only the one flue is in use currently, this flue is lined with unfaced fiberglass batting between liner and clay tile. The other two flues are open at the top with a little fiberglass batting plugging the openings in the house.

Fiberglass batting will not stop air flow. If the other two flues are not in use, seal them at the top, and the bottom, with something that will better restrict air flow. I would think the air flow in the unused flues could be pulling a lot of heat from the other flue.

How far open do you generally have the air setting when the stove is cruising?

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

How far open do you generally have the air setting when the stove is cruising?

As closed as it will go. I'll post a video to Youtube one of these days 'cause I think the flames still seem a bit lively when the air control is turned down all the way. I used to have a Quadrafire in a previous house a number of years ago and remember the flames were really whispy and slow when it was turned low.

The boiler is new.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Begreen,

Block off plate below damper? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[begreen]

An insulated block off plate is installed below the damper to contain the heat in the fireplace firebox so that the stove doesn't try to heat up the entire chimney's mass. This can raise the temp of the air coming from the blower nicely, especially with a massive chimney.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/

 

[cygnus]

How far open do you generally have the air setting when the stove is cruising?

...the flames still seem a bit lively when the air control is turned down all the way.

The boiler is new.

How about a dollar bill test on the gasket? After several burns I realized that the gasket on my brand new insert wasn't tight against the stove body. I tightened the door handle and it burns much calmer, slower and hotter.

 

[Dieselbreath]

Does your insert have a fan? Mine is pretty useless without it.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Well, I do not have a block-off plate, but I do have that area stuffed with fiberglass batting. I figured that would suffice, but perhaps not?

Yes I do have a blower and it works.

My door also passes the dollar bill test. The flames slow down some when the air control is turned down, but not as much as I remember from my old Quad.

 

[pen]

1/2 face cord in 3 days isn't that terrible. I'd burn a face cord a week in the coldest of weather where I am in Pa. I can only assume you are colder where you are.

If I were you, I'd get into that attic and find out what it will take to insulate properly.

pen