Which wood burning Majestic fireplace to choose?

[mdmooreIII]

I am planning to construct a new home, 2 story, approx 3200 sqft. My builder sent me to his fireplace resource to pick one out. I am looking at these 3 models, and would like some advice on which one to go with.

Majestic Warm Majic WMC36 - approx $1600 (all prices are installed, with piping)
Majestic Warm Majic WMC42 - approx $3200
Majestic BFC36 - approx $3500

I would like to use the fireplace as a secondary heat source, as well as for effect. My floor plan is not very open, so the heat from the fireplace would primarily stay in the den, and maybe trickle into the surrounding rooms on the first floor.

Any advice or opinions on these products would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Shane]

All of those units are great for aesthetics but wouldn't count on them for any serious heat in anything but the mildest of climates. Problem with an open fireplace like that is that it may kick some heat into the room during operation, but when the fire dies the chimney still draws. It draws even with the damper closed, there is nothing airtight about them. The chimney will tend to draw more heat out of the home then it ever put into the home while the fire was going. It's not just majestic fireplaces it's just open fireplaces in general. If you want something ot provide serious heat ask the dealer about the Sequoia fireplaces by Vermont Castings.

 

[Hogwildz]

Do yourself a favor. Do some research before jumping to a decision. Don't let the builder tell you what you want. He works for you, and installs what you want.
Heres a few links to fireplaces that you may want to consider that are efficient & will not put your heat up the chimney.
Keep us posted

http://www.kozyheat.com

http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/fireplaces/accueil_foyer.asp

http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productline.cfm?category=5&sc=7

http://www.regency-fire.com/Wood/Fireplace/index.php

http://www.quadrafire.com/products/fireplaces/woodFireplaceDetail.asp?f=7100fp

 

[DiscoInferno]

I have a WMC42 that was preinstalled in a modular home, and now I mostly think of ways to upgrade it to something efficient. If you ever think you want to generate real heat and burn a lot less wood, then look into EPA-certified fireplaces. Looks like they won't cost you any more than the larger Majestics, depending on how much of that $3200/$3500 is for labor. The larger high-efficiency fireplaces are in that range, less at wholesale prices. Smaller ones (which will still put out more heat than a WMC42) can be had in the $2000-3000 range. It will cost you a lot more later if you change your mind.

In addition to Hogwildz's links, I'll point to Security Fireplaces since that's what I replaced a different builder's-special prefab with.

You might be real surprised how much heat flows out from the fireplace room with an airtight fireplace. I was. Are we talking a single doorway with a header, or a wider, headerless opening? The latter especially makes for a great "virtual ceiling duct".

 

[Shane]

Also check out the Fireplace Xtrordinair Elite series. www.fireplacex.com

 

[mdmooreIII]

Thanks for the responses. I followed several of the links, but I am afraid that the EPA certified fireplaces are going to be out of my budget, which is being pushed by the $3500 installed price mentioned above.

How about the Lennox Brentwood 36"? One website listed the MSRP at about $1600. Any experience with this model?

 

[DiscoInferno]

The Brentwood is identical to the BIS Ultima (either Lennox bought Security, or vice-versa), which I have. With the door (they charge separately!) and the chimney you're likely to cross over $2000, more if you want the outside air kit or the blower or gravity vent kit or central air kit to distribute the heat elsewhere. You should be able to get around 20% off MSRP through your builder (I got wholesale through the chimney guy that installed it) or if you shop around on the internet. I think the best price I found was at http://woodstoves.net/security/bisultima.htm.

So far I like it a lot, it's been my primary heat this winter for a 2000 sf house. That's definitely pushing its capacity though, it's only a 2 cf firebox. Downside is no ash pan and no real ash lip, so stuff that falls against the door falls out either onto the bottom louvres or onto the hearth when you open it. This is probably common among most ZC units. Not a problem for small/medium fires, but when you pack it tight, expect to clean up.

 

[Shane]

Might I suggest a wood stove in lieu of a fireplace? You should be able to accomplish that within your budget and you won't be sending your money up the flue so to speak. Another option is to buy the largest ZC you can and install an insert when you have the budget. You'll end up spending alot more going that route though.

 

[DiscoInferno]

A freestanding stove is certainly something to consider, since they can be had cheaper (check out Lowes/HD clearance). Still, these EPA-certified ZC "fireplaces" are essentially wood stoves encased in an insulated metal box, much like an insert. Can't imagine any reason to put in a non-EPA fireplace if there is any chance the OP wants something efficient later, since the price premium just isn't that much. This is a mistake I already made once, and regret.

 

[wg_bent]

While the price of a more efficient fireplace would see out of your price range, consider that the units extra cost will pay for itself within 1 year. One of the Quadrafires or fireplace ex units (not picking any particulars, just examples) will heat your whole house. The Majestic will cool your whole house.

I have a Majestic, now there's a $1600.00 insert sitting in it. I promise... you will not be unhappy you spent the extra dollars.

 

[mdmooreIII]

I started looking at the BIS Ultima/Lennox Brentwood on a couple of different sites. One post that I found had the following statement -

"The Brentwood is the same as the Security Brand Ultima. Same company (Lennox)owns them both. If in cold climate, I'd go with the Ultima because in uses solid pack pipe. If in warmer climate, then the air cooled Brentwood chimney system is going to save you some money over the solid pack Security units. Both are rock solid units."

Is that true about the solid pack pipe vs. air cooled pipe?

Also, my downstairs is about 1500 sq ft. It is not an open floor plan, 9 ft ceilings downstairs. The room were the fireplace will be is 20x15, with openings to a foyer, dining room, and kitchen. Are either of these units going to be too much for that space?

 

[DiscoInferno]

AFAIK, both units can use either solid pack (insulated) pipe or air-cooled. The manual lists two models of the former and one of the latter, all from the same manufacturer (Security). I have the air-cooled on my Ultima because it was cheaper, easier to install, I have plenty of draft (25' chimney), and DC isn't that cold. New install this year, I haven't cleaned it yet to see how bad the deposits are, but draft has not been a problem even in an external uninsulated chase.

 

[mdmooreIII]

Shane mentioned the Sequoia by Vermont Castings. I talked to the distributor this morning about the Sequoia II, non-catalytic. He couldn't really compare it to the Lennox Brentwood/BIS Ultima since he does not carry those brands, but said that it was a good unit that is definately more efficient than the WarmMajic and the BCF 36. I am waiting to hear back on a price. Do you guys have an opinion on the Sequoia?

 

[DiscoInferno]

It's EPA certified, so it will be efficient. Looking at the specs, it's about twice the size of the Brentwood - 4cf firebox, 24" logs. That's a big boy, lots of heat. Probably pricy, but it should be a good unit.

Edit: I looked at the wrong model. The Sequoia II is 2.9cf, 23" logs.

 

[mdmooreIII]

Ok, decision time.

I asked the dealerto compare the Vermont Castings Sequoia II with the Majestic Warm Majic 42. According to him, the BTU output is similiar on both units, approx 11,000-44,000 per hour. The Sequoia II is EPA certified, and is a little more efficient. The dealer made it sound like there is not a significant difference between the two as far as heating ability. Does that sound right or wrong to you guys?

I can get the Warm Majic installed for $3500 and the Sequoia II for $3300, so the cost is a wash.

Thanks.

 

[DiscoInferno]

The only way I can get anything remotely like that much heat out of my WMC42 is to fill it with 50+lbs of wood and run it with the damper mostly closed, which is still a lot of draft. But the wood will still be gone in an hour, and a whole lot of warm room air will have gone out the chimney. It will warm the house some but not as much as that amount of wood should and you can forget extended burns. Oh, and with doors closed you will get very little radiant heat from the WMC, because the screen and tempered glass reflects most of it.

Bottom line: The Sequoia has to be way, way more efficient and offer much longer burn times. I'd be surprised if the WMC is more than 10% efficient. And given that the WMC is slightly more expensive to boot, I'd say it's a no-brainer. I would trade my WMC for a Sequoia in a heartbeat. Unless the WMC42 is different now, your dealer is either ill-informed or being less than forthcoming.

I noticed that both use the same 8" triple-wall (air-cooled) chimney. The usual advice applies: run it up through the interior of the house if possible.

 

[mdmooreIII]

I am being quoted a double wall chimney for the Sequoia II, and it will be run outside the house. Does that present a problem?

 

[DiscoInferno]

Double wall air-cooled, or insulated? Depends on the climate and chimney length, but the conventional wisdom here is that external is bad for draft and creosote formation, and that air-cooled is doubly bad. I happen to have air-cooled double-wall in an external chase on my BIS, and draft isn't a problem, but it's a straight 25' and DC isn't that cold. I haven't checked the creosote situation yet.

The web page (http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=170) for the Sequioia II only mentions "Majestic™ S8 three-wall, 8" chimney system", which is air-cooled. I have this (I think) on my WMC42, and again it's in an external chase but not as long. Draft is fine there also, but since it's not air-controlled like an EPA fireplace I don't know that means much.

Basically, if you hunt around old posts you'll find it's a crapshoot; some people have "bad" setups that work fine, some don't. You'll maximize your chance of success by running the chimney internally, but a lot of people get away with your proposed setup.

 

[mdmooreIII]

The pipe the guy is quoting is double wall air cooled, approx 25'. I am in North Carolina, so it sounds like it is a similar setup to your BIS.

 

[DiscoInferno]

My guess based on extremely limited experience is that you'll be fine then.

I looked in the manual, and it does look like you can go with a double or triple wall air-cooled pipe. The latter I guess is effectively insulated a little better. I think the WMC42 requires the triple-wall, which may be why it was more expensive. There is a section on the manual suggesting, but not requiring, an insulated chase for cold climates, but NC isn't that.

 

[mdmooreIII]

Decided to go with the Heat n Glo Northstar. Thanks for all the advice. This is a great forum, and I will return if I have any issues with the Northstar.

Thanks again.

 

[jtp10181]

Awesome choice! (I work at a HNG dealer)

You will love it, just make sure you have good dry wood. There is a little bit of a learning curve to using the EPA approved hybrid wood fireplaces but once you get the hand of it they are awesome.