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Whitfield Advantage II-TC WP2 Tuning Problems

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Steve Ediger, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Steve Ediger

    Steve Ediger New Member

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    We inherited a Whitfield Insert when we purchased our house and it's a bit cranky from time to time. Several years, I had a professional come and clean it, but I've recently taken to doing it myself (after watching what he did).

    Currently, I'm having some problems. I was getting a lot of black soot on the glass. So, after my annual cleaning didn't help, I replaced the door and ash compartment door gaskets. This helped, but I'm still having some problems

    1. Can't open the damper at all or the fire gets too hot (combustion trim is set at factory settings).
    2. Even with heat set at 1, it gets pretty hot. Above 3, pellets just build up in the UltraGrate and eventually overflow (I have the auger timing trim set to minimum).

    We live at 6800' elevation. I don't know if this has consequences, but it would seem that the damper might need to be more open, not less.

    When I did open heat up to 4, the soot reappeared and the Ultragrate filled up. However, if I tried opening the damper, live pellet coals flew all around.

    Any ideas? BTW, I don't think that I did a very good job on the door gasket. I can see the fire from one of the door corners (just one place).

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  2. mralias

    mralias Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like many potential issues here. Perhaps if you can post some pics of your venting system and connection to the stove and some pics of the gasket area you are talking about it might help better isolate the issue or issues. The heat build up can be from the stove still not being properly cleaned. Gaps in the glass door is not good. Do the dollar bill test to check that.
  3. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hi Steve- Read you comments, a couple of questions. What size door gasket?? Believe the Adv2 is 7' of 3/4 inch gasket. Is it compressing? If not you can adjust the door handle for some adjusting. Did you remove exhaust piping and sweep all the way up the chimney?? Is it a full 4" liner? Hopefully with a cleanout tee on the back? The motors were removed and cleaned? At the same time, I'd replace the exh blower gasket with flat gasket and silicone, cut holes for the six mounting studs to come through for the 11/32 nuts. Internals fully removed and cleaned?? The overhead in that stove can be a bear, I remove as best I can with my fingers pulling ash over and down (the upper inner framing). You cleaned behind the cer bricks and removed the wings behind the bricks?? And the airwash- remove the four screws that hold the hood on and vacuum out the opening?? If you did all that, put good pellets in, set the board to factory settings, have the air damper out about one inch (active flame but no boiling of the pellets, I'd set on 2/3 combustion 2, convection 3) that stove should heat great. There should be no gaps in the door, but if you can get boiling pellets as you alluded to, it sounds ok, just need proper damper adjusting. Or were you referring to flyash flying away when you opened damper?? You should always have flying fly ash, and when new fuel falls in the ultragrate, the pellet coals will bounce around and out too. Let us know.

    Stovelark
    Enviro EF3 FS pellet
    Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
    Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood
  4. Steve Ediger

    Steve Ediger New Member

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    Mralias,

    Here are the requested pics.

    1. Gasket Detail
    2. Internal, Bricks on
    3. Internal, Bricks off
    4. Internal, Left Fly ash chamber/exhaust outlet (no build-up)
    5. Internal, Right Fly ash chamber/ inlet? (no build-up)
    6. Heat Exchange Pipes
    7. Back
    8. Intake Fan (vacumed it without removing it; I don't have a set of gaskets to replace the old ones)
    9. Exhaust Fan (vacumed it without removing it; I don't have a set of gaskets to replace the old ones)
    10. Chimney with cap off (it looks like it's a flexible 4" all the way to the top. Quite a bit of creosote build up, but it's open all the way to the Tee)

    stovelark,

    I put in 1/2". I downloaded a manual for the Advantage II-TC from lennox and it called for 1/2". It is compressing most places. I'll see what I can do to adjust the door.

    I did not sweep all the way up the chimney. I guess that will have to go on a list. Got a 4" chimney brush ;-)?

    I did not remove the motors, because I don't have gaskets to replace the old ones, but in looking at them I did not notice any clogging. They looked pretty clean.

    Yes to all the cleaning, behind bricks and everything, multiple times. For the overhead, I got what I could, but the pipes look pretty clean.

    And the airwash- remove the four screws that hold the hood on and vacuum out the opening??
    I don't know what you mean by this

    I'll try 2/3, but I get a lot of boiling pellets if I open the damper to 1" (and a lot of fly-out when they get small).

    Thanks for your help.

    Steve


    0-DoorGasketDetail.jpg 1-FrontWithBricks.jpg 2-FrontWithoutBricks.jpg 3-FrontLeft.jpg 4-FrontRight.jpg 5-HeatExchangePipes.jpg 6Back.jpg 7-FanDetail.jpg 8-FanDetail.jpg 9-ChimneyCapRemoved.jpg
  5. Steve Ediger

    Steve Ediger New Member

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    BTW, my serial number is 94205 with a model number of WP2. Anybody know when this stove was made and whether it was manufactured by Whitfield or Lennox?
  6. mralias

    mralias Minister of Fire

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    Nice pics. Helps a little bit. What is on the other end of the vent system? Needs cleaning and can contribute to your issues. Second, you need to test the door all the way around to make sure it is sealed against the gasket. If not, adjust the door so that it is. Third, fans really should be pulled and gaskets replaced if they are old. You may not be able to see where the clog is without pulling them. Fourth, where is the vacuum hose to vacuum switch? Find that and make sure the line is clear. Has the stove ever worked well and/or are the issues you are having new? Do you have a OAK?
  7. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    I would look into blowing combustion blower motor and convection blower motor, out with compressed air and luring with the proper oil. Sometimes just a few drops of SAE 20 will get a blower spooling back to 3,000 RPM.

    Also, cleaning the vanes and squirrel cage (get combustion blower gasket first. Your convection blower may have a gasket, but a 1/2" or 5/8" flat gasket will work, or just don't use one. Many stoves have no gasket. If that blower leaks, it's not really a big deal.

    Ash traps need thoroughly cleaned and when combustion blower is removed, you can get in from the back side.

    Prob a hundred other things to check and do, but a pot that is building up with pellets, needs the damper opened. So if you have more air to give it? Then that's what is required??
  8. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hi Steve, great pix! On the door pix, at top theres a little hood over the top of the glass, thats the air wash, needs to be removed and cleared out you'll see much better cleaner glass. For the blowers take them off, that convection blower pix was pretty dirty, I'm sure the combustion is much worse. Yes the chimney needs sweeping all the way to the top and if poss the top cap should be looked at. The vacuum line, in your case its not a vacuum its positive pressure. Its meant to stop the auger if the chim is blocked, if you notice the vac hose conn is aft of the blower output pressure. Anyway, everybody's right, the comb path is prob still all crudded up. For damper adjustment, adjust it for proper flame pix. If you can "boil" pellets, you have good air flow through the stove. As for age, that Whitfield is prob early to mid 90's. Lennox bought Whitfield in the 90's not sure when, but I know they bought Country Pellet stoves too, after they stopped Whitfield production, not sure of the date. Too bad, the Adv 2T most popular pellet design ever, a lot of stoves used their proven design. Whitfield parts are still available.
    PS should be two bolts behind door latch (internal to stove) to adjust door handle latching, that might help your door seal, 1/2 inch sounds small.... but if thats what the books say, I'm with it. Good luck, you got a heat beast there. With a clean combustion motor and adjustable air damper you should be able to dial it in, Good luck

    Stovelark
    Enviro EF3 FS pellet (another Adv 2T copy)
    Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
    Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood
  9. MountainSean

    MountainSean Credo Quia Absurdum

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    You have an advantage II-T (not C) which does use 1/2" rope gasket, 8 feet of it in a kit. I second what stovelark said about cleaning to the top of the exhaust. From your serial number you are probably looking around 1995 for the year of production but you can look here https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/kb_results.asp?ID=4 at the second pic for where to find the ID information including the date of production. I am not sure about your description of the flame but it is fairly normal to have some sparks flying about from the burnpot You can see what the flames in my stove look like here https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/kb_results.asp?ID=5 and that was if I remember right about setting 3, lower setting will result in shorter flames but they should still be bright yellow and dancing.
    Pull the combustion motor off clean that, and then do a dollar bill test on the door gasket and see if that helps with your issues.

    Lark: Lennox bought Whitfield in 1999 and then discontinued most of the productions stoves they had going which was a darn shame as Whitfield made some great stoves.
  10. DirtyDave

    DirtyDave Feeling the Heat

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    I am not sure what this is after all these years with one. once your airflow is initially adjusted and set with the set screw on rod you should never really need to change setting. clean the stove properly weekly instead. abd dont waste time trying to get to ash traps from back of unit. takes a long small hose and then theres the t anyway that would stop you. go from front like its made to do. 8 screws total to get to all the ash traps, Here is a good link on Whitfield stoves for the adjustment
    http://www.butkus.org/whitfield_pellet_stove.htm
  11. Steve Ediger

    Steve Ediger New Member

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    Thanks for all the tips. I'll take some time and work through them. I'll post another reply after that.

    For now, the stove is putting out plenty of heat at the lower settings, so I'm not as concerned about it operating all through the range of higher settings (4 and 5).
  12. A1Stoves.com

    A1Stoves.com Minister of Fire

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    whitfield!
  13. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Mountain, thanks for info.
    Dirty- Don't know what you mean about not cleaning out the traps with long hose?? Anyway, yes take motors off, clean from comb motor into back of ash traps, absolutely. 2/3 means 2 leds lit for feedrate, 3 for convection depends on board you have some have rotary switches some have led control boards. I was suggesting make your damper adjustment on those settings, I know about set collar, but not all pellets/venting/combustion motors are the same... just saying possible solutions to consider, pellets are the biggest consideration of course.

    Stovelark
    Enviro EF3 FS pellet
    Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
    Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood
  14. DirtyDave

    DirtyDave Feeling the Heat

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    Stovelark all advantage series are the same be it a insert or fs. as you can see in the pics from fron that steve posted it is opened all the way up to the ash traps. the little openings in the bottem go behind steel plate and T and go out to combustion blower. there are no more ash traps. All be it the ash will collect up around heat exchanger that you really need to blow out to clean out thoroughly. These old heat monsters are well built and will last a lifetime with modest maint. I wouldnt even pull the combustion fan on mine but once a year or 5 ton, and the fan is far from plugged, Steve's posting says he has good airflow from the sounds of it. It should run on 5 the same as 1 for the air adjustment. just turn convection fan up to high on 3,4,5. to remove max heat from exchanger. Oak on an old whitfield is half futile as they have an opening that draws air from insde the chasis. blocking that off has bad effects for airflow. if there is fine tuning pots on that updated board I have no idea, but if so then someone played with no idea of what not they play with and walla the end result shows itself as too much or not enough. If it aint broke dont fix it goes miles on a Whitfield. I will add this, for me i have 3 inch pipe. 45, 3 ft at inch per ft incline to outside T. 45, 1 ft, 45,11 ft up. I know it should be 4 inch on the tables, and I have to clean pipe to make me happy weekly. when power goes out smoke goes up and out just like a woodstove. it has been like this for years, and works fine.
  15. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Dave, this will be my last comment to you. I am very aware of Whitfield Adv 2 series stove. They are all not the same. Control boards are different for stoves within the Advantage class. Some had ignitors, some could be backfitted, but the control board circuitry did change throughout the series run. I have about 25-30 customers with Advantage stoves, you learn nuance differences seeing them every year. Good luck with yours, yes the Whitfields were heat beasts.

    Stovelark

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