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Wind blows out pilot light

Post in 'It's a Gas!' started by robwil1952, Mar 16, 2009.

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  1. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    I've got a 1 year old Jotul GF 100 gas stove with a direct vent and high-wind vent cap. The stove vents towards the ocean and I am up on a hill where we can get some strong swirling winds. When it does get windy, which is fairly often, the pilot light will blow out. You can see it fluttering around with a gust of wind, and it works perfectly when it's calm, so I'm positive it's the wind. I've also had a tech come out and check everything as far as operation. I've been looking at these wind/safety guards http://www.elitedeals.com/cpf-69454.html?productid=cpf-69454&channelid=FROOG but I am not convinced this will solve the problem. It is open on the top and bottom, and with our swirling winds, which don't necessarily come from the sides, may not work all that well. Does anyone know of something better? Like maybe a fully enclosed solution?
    Thanks!

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  2. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Averill Park, NY, on Burden Lake II...
    Hey, robwil1952...
    Refer to page 9 of your owner's manual & make sure your air restrictors are in the correct position -
    based on your chimney height.
    If they are, & adjusting them doesn't work, try the following:
    Take the glass off your unit the next time this happens &
    see if you can tell where the wind that is agitating the pilot
    is entering the firebox.
    It may be possible to take a small piece of sheet metal, folded
    into an "L" or a "V" shape to divert the airflow away from the pilot assembly.
    Obviously, you can't block the flow COMPLETELY or your unit won't
    get any combustion air, but you may be able to stop the pilot agitation...
  3. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    Thanks! I'll check those things out. I probably should have mentioned that the stove vents horizontally. It's in a corner of the room and vents at a right angle out the side of the house and is only around 3 ft off the deck where it exits. The entire venting system is only about 3 ft long also. I have pulled the glass off before and it is very drafty inside the log and pilot light area.
  4. R&D Guy

    R&D Guy New Member

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    Rob,

    I think DASKY's got this one wrapped up. I'd look into the pilot shield idea. I typically like the "C" shaped design matching the outside dimensions of the SIT pilot bracket - the open side obviously faces the burner. If you can make the shield that extends 1/2 to 3/4" above the pilot. The units I design (not Jotul sorry) are also sold in Australia and the AU standard requires a 80 MPH sustained wind (like you get) be directed at all sides of that high-wind cap and the pilot/burner have to light perfectly. A pilot shield is high wind 101.

    You might want to ask your dealer for one, I'm sure they'd have one in stock in an area like that. If not then try a few layers of tin foil and see what that does for you.
  5. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I'm thinking corrosion from that salt air coming into a cold stove.
  6. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    It's been doing it from the beginning and it's only a year old. It's just that we didn't use it much last year after it was installed, as it was near the end of the winter. So it wasn't until this year, when it started doing it again, that we realized it was definitely a problem.
    And when it's working, it gets plenty hot.
  7. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Hi Rob,
    Try taking a piece of sheet metal and bending it into four corners,(squrare shaped), and put it surrounging the pilot. I beleive Dasky refers to the same set up in the above mentioned post.
    As per usual, GOOD ADVICE DASKY!. This sheet metal will act as a pilot shield and protect it from much of the wind, but not all of it. It will also help with other problems.
    Its worth a try. Your technician should of tried it.
    If you ever encounter a problem with a "Blow Torch Noise" when the unit is ignited and burning, give me a shout. Jotul had to revamp their burner plates or tray to eliminate the problem. This was on the Firelight DV 600 Models, I don't know if it is a problem with their other models.
    I was told by a Gas Engineer, that if left uncorrected, it can damage the burners and the stove.
    I am sure Jotul has since corrected the problem on their current production runs, unlike some other companies.

    Good Luck,
    John
  8. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Firebug!
    <>If you ever encounter a problem with a "Blow Torch Noise" when the unit is ignited and burning, give me a shout. Jotul had to revamp their burner plates or tray to eliminate the problem. This was on the Firelight DV 600 Models, I don't know if it is a problem with their other models.
    I was told by a Gas Engineer, that if left uncorrected, it can damage the burners and the stove.<>

    That "Blow Torch" noise is generally only related LP units.
    Because the LP is heavier than air, it can acculmulate UNDER the burner (puddling)
    & not ignite from the pilot, until the LP has built up high enough for the flame to reach it.
    This will cause two ignition points. One is on the burner & the second is at the air shutter.
    I have seen it occur in Jotul, Heat n Glo, Regency & Hearthstone gas units.

    <>I am sure Jotul has since corrected the problem on their current production runs, unlike some other companies.<>

    The Jotul problems seemed to stem from the alignment of the burner orifice into the burner tube.
    In my OWN experience, this doesn't happen at the factory, because Jotul ships ALL units NG ready...
    The LP conversion is done at the dealer & if the tech isn't careful, he can change the
    position of the burner orifice during the conversion, resulting in a misalignment.

    More often than not, simply angling the first hole in the burner towards the pilot flame will eliminate the problem.
    Many of the HnG units are easier to correct than others, because of the ceramic burners they use.
    One or two extra holes can be drilled to direct the gas towards the pilot & the
    LP will ignite before it drops to the air shutter...

    I realize you've endured a lotta crap from your HnG product & your dealer, but their products are
    (for the most part) pretty hi-quality units, & perform admirably in most installations.
    The odds of you getting TWO lemons from them are astronomical in most cases,
    but I'm sure that doesn't make you feel any better
  9. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    Do you guys think that I should also go with that exterior cap wind shield, in addition to the pilot shield?
  10. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    I would try to shield the pilot from agitation first.
    Those "High-wind shields" are more like wind diffusers
    & may not work as well as advertised - ESPECIALLY with
    almost a straight horizontal configuration...
    I've had MINIMAL success using them with "up & out" vents...
    Save yourself the $100 (+/-)...
  11. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    Would something other than sheetmetal work? Like an aluminum or tin can cut to size? Geez, this house was just recently built, and as lousy a job as they did cleaning up you'd think there'd be a stinkin' piece of sheet metal lying around!
  12. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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  13. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    I don't see why you couldn't use something of that nature...
    I'd probably try to use a can from tomato sauce or tomato soup
    or something else with tomatoes...
    They tend to be high in acidity & the metal for the cans tends to be a bit beefier...
    Cut it to size... flatten it out...paint it with hi-temp black to hide it.
    You may hafta reposition it a time or two til you get it right, but it should work...
    Good luck & report back once you figure it out!
  14. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Hi Dasky,
    The "Blow Torch" noise was corrected by Jotuls Engineers fabricating a Revamped Burner Pan. The only difference from this revamped burner pan and the unit that came with the the Firelight 600 Stove was a "V" shaped piece of metal welded to the burner pan.
    Jotul, diagnosed the problem,and corrected this with the Revamped Burner Pan.
    The dealer technician at the time told me off a problem Jotul had with missaligned burners and ventury tubes. They had several incidents of propane gas build up and blowing out the front glass.
    The Consumer Product Safety Commission,(CPSC), has the Jotul Recall listed on their website along with all the details of property damage and personal injury from the gas build up and glass blowing out.
    I beieve the Jotul Models where The Allagash and The Lillehammer Models. Jotul did notify the owners of these units.
    As far as Heat & Glow Products go, you are indeed entitled to your opinion and I will stick to mine.
    The unit that was taken back because of the rubbed off paint was unit #5 not #2.
    The dealer told me if he was me he would demand my money back not accept another unit. He used to stock Heat & Glow Products but gave them up because issues with the products and the company. He will get a Heat & Glow Product if you want one, but he will not stock them. His words via telephone call last Friday,"I only stock products that give me good customer feedback and less customer problems". His words, not mine.
    Sorry if I got off the subject of this post, but I am only responding to your post.

    John

    He now only stocks Quadrafire which is, as you know, is also owned by Hon Industries.
  15. R&D Guy

    R&D Guy New Member

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    Rob,

    Have you had any luck sourcing a pilot shield or making one of your own? If so let us know how it's working.
  16. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    Unfortunately, that didn't seem to work. I feel that I've got it well shielded. The pilot light is getting blown around by the draft. You can see it getting blown and it makes a "whooshing" sound. It may be getting too much air down there as the entire venting system is only a couple feet long. It doesn't even have to be that windy out. I've ordered the external wind guard, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
  17. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Hey, robwil1952...
    You got a multi-meter & a couple of alligator clip jumpers?
    Maybe you can turn the pilot up using the pilot adjustment
    screw on the front of the valve...
    Take a reading on the t-couple first...
    There's a soldered connection on the back of the SIT valve...
    A blue wire is soldered to a round piece of steel in the center of a round plate...
    Put one of the aligator clips on that rounded feature & the other end of the jumper
    connected to your multimeter...
    Run the other jumper from your meter to ground somewhere on the chassis...
    Take a reading on the pilot - with the burner on...
    Anything above 6mv is good, but if you can get it up to about 9 - 10 mv, it'll be stronger,
    & may hold - EVEN with agitation...
  18. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Hi Rob,
    Look in your owners manual to see if your stove has an Exhaust Vent Restrictor Adjustment.
    I am not sure if yours does, but the Firelight DV 600's do. This adjustment is a little plate under your top grate of your stove that you can slide either more closed,(more restricted) or more open,(less restricted) depending on how much draft is created by your venting system and set up. It is adjusted by loosening a small wing nut and sliding a small panel and than re-tightning this wing nut.
    In your owners manual it tells you how to adjust this restrictor if your stove has one.
    It also gives adjustment setings for chimney height and draft control.

    John
  19. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    I do have a multimeter, but I don't have any clips....just the probes. I'll pick some up though. The flame does seem weak. I'm assuming the tech checked that out when he was here though. I wonder why he didn't suggest it, unless it's a safety issue or something.
    I'll check the manual for the restrictor plate also.
    Thanks!
  20. R&D Guy

    R&D Guy New Member

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    Rob,

    Looking at page 9 and 30 of the manual - it looks like there is a small secondary air gap around the burner and a cut out around the pilot. Looks like the pilot hood stands just above this opening. If this is the case then all the air in the system has to squeeze through this spot like a nozzle which puts the pilot flame in a really turbulent area.

    Manual

    I wouldn't bother adjusting the restrictor since after it was suggested the first time, you informed us that you have 3' of horizontal with no vertical rise. It's a favorite dead horse people like to beat, but I've never heard of restricting a stove at minimum vertical rise and it will more than likely cause your stove to not work at all.

    Again, looking at the design of your stove - especially the area around the pilot, the symptoms you conveyed (burns fine on calm day, goes out with a strong gust) it sounds like a pilot shield would be helpful, but instead of having you make one, PM me your address if you'd like and I'll mail you one that will likely fit on your unit.
  21. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Hey Rob,
    If you are still having problems with your stove and can't track down a fix for it, I should have Jotuls Gas Engineers phone number in my paper work I can dig it out and you can give them a shout.
    They were EXTREMELY helpful in finding the solution to my Jotul Firelight when the dealer technicain could not come up with the fix.
    Your stove should still be covered under warranty,(five years), so that is not a problem. I don't think it would be a problem even if it was out of warranty.
    They seem to be very decent people from a very decent manufacturer.
    If you need the number let me know and I will find it for you.

    John
  22. stoveguy13

    stoveguy13 Minister of Fire

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    there is a gasket between the pilot assy. and the floor of the stove when it was converted they may have damaged it and you cloud be suck air up through he bottom of the stove two screws hold the pilot down pull it up and see if it is in place
  23. robwil1952

    robwil1952 Member

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    I appreciate all of the suggestions. At the moment, though, I am trying R&D;Guy's pilot light shield that he so kindly sent me. Today is a little breezy and so far the flame has held. It's not blowing around like it previously did. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks!
  24. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Hi Rob,
    Hope this pilot shield does the trick!
    I don't see why the manufactures don't automaticaly install these shields at the factory, just to be on the safe side. What could it hurt?
    I can't beleive that this little piece of tin is going to make that big a dent in their profit margin.
    If needed it is there, if not, it is still there!
    Your unit is still under the five year warranty, correct?? I would imagine if Jotul/Jotul Dealer were to find out you are trying to correct this problem on your own and you are not a experienced technician, this could be probable cause for Jotul/Dealer to void the remainder of your manufacturers warranty. Enna or No?
    Be Careful!
    Good Luck,
    John
  25. R&D Guy

    R&D Guy New Member

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    Well I'm glad it's holding to date and am happy to help even with competitor models. I guess we'll have to wait for the next big windstorm to know for sure, but I'm quite confident it's the fix you needed.
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