Wood Burning FP Insert into a bad Chimney

[Stowy]

I have a quote for $3800 to re-line our chimney to use the fireplace. This crazy quote has me leaning towards a wood-burning stove fireplace insert - hoping I can avoid the chimney repair.

It seems most inserts use a 6" diameter pipe. is this true? Should I have a larger one? I hear flex tube is junk and will burn through - needing replacement after a couple years which is NOT acceptable. Please help. I want a semi-permanent solution but do not want to break the bank.

I hope to heat my entire 2 story 2300 sq foot home and will get a blower which I also would like to hook into my existing duct-work (if possible).

We now have a heat pump in this old house (that we just bought) and I fear my heating costs will be atrocious unless I get creative and use good old wood. I considered the outdoor furnace, but we want the enjoyment of the fire indoors - my wife wants a glass door on the stove.

What about moisture? I hear that it will be dry and would like a way to add moisture back into the air - something more advanced than a pot of water on top of the stove.

Thank you for you help and assistance. This is a great website.

- Stowy

 

[Todd]

$3800!! Are they relining with gold? You can buy a nice insert and s/s liner for less than that. A stainless steel liner should last 20 years or more if you take care of it by burning dry wood and sweeping it annualy.

 

[Cearbhaill]

Yep- I got my insert, the installation with a stainless steel liner plus some chimney repairs done all for $3600.

Stowy- do some searching around using the words "moving+hot+air" to find out what realistic expectations are regarding heating a whole 2 story house with an insert.
It is not always as simple as it sounds

 

[Stowy]

THANK YOU. I was wondering how my air handler would come into play on the heat pupmp - like out it on fan only and if I could also use a Humidifier that-a-way. Have a good day!
- Stowy

 

[Stowy]

OK so I have a chimney sweep telling me that a liner should not be ovalized and to knock out my damper and some brinks to keep it round and I have the wood burning stove store telling me that you have to ovalize to get the liner through the damper - through the tight space. He says it is not smart to damage my damper and chimney. The sweep says it is not code to ovalize and that the wood burning stove place is doing the installation wrong. Which should I believe?

Thank you!
Stowy

 

[TMonter]

The sweep doesn't know what he's talking about. Ovalizing is an accepted practice and conforms to the International Building Code. The liner manufacturer will give you guidelines for ovalizing the liner.

 

[jtp10181]

On the other hand the sweep is somewhat on the right track, it is best to keep the liner round and cutting out the damper is not a big deal.

 

[Stowy]

Thanks. You all have helped me in my decision. I wonder if it is OK for a Jack Leg to install this rather than use a professional firm? He says I can get one purchased and installed for under $3K. He does this full time, but is just a one man crew.

 

[Polarbear2008]

Stowy...is the chimney "bad" because of the liner or because of the external chase(brick)? Was a chimney sweep/installer for many years and there are several ways of relining. You can have oval off the stove through the damper (if it fits) then round to the top. You can go oval from the stove collar to the top. Or you can cut out the damper and part of the firebox and go round all the way to the top (I prefer the latter but any cutting of the firebox will pretty much make the stove permanent). It depends on the configuration of the fireplace and chimney. If the external chase is bad do not reline...get it replaced. Also there are some inserts that have a rectangular collar. You can get adapters to fit over and convert to round. Good luck.

 

[begreen]

Stowy, Is this a newer generation heat pump or an old ticker? I have a heat pump in an old farmhouse and am surprised at how low the heating bills are. Not trying to discourage the wood stove, but have you checked with the power company on previous season's electric heating bills?

 

[Stowy]

It is an older generation Heat pump that is not designed well. There is not enough of a run - should be 4 foot - where the intakes come in. I am going to get an stove insert, replace my ducts with a high R rating, get new insulation on the floor (in the crawl) and hope to reduce my heat pump usage because of it. I have thought of ways to open the rooms so heat radiates better so the HVAC can circulate to those cold corners. Last year we had a month in the 20's that brought the electric bill up to $700. I hope to avoid that for sure.... But then again, the previous owners did not know that things like weatherstrip or caulk existed. No wonder it was so high!

Also, my chimney has cracks and all in it so I am going with a stainless liner with a cover cap. I am going to skip getting insulation since I am in NC. ALso anm not doing the bottom bracket since the liner is going all the way up.

I looked at the Buck Stove this weekend and like the Model 85 with the brushed nickel door. I think I will build out the heath in a semi circle too. I wonder if it is OK to set this stove on a painted brick hearth? Hmmm... more research to do. I may have to put some tile over it...



Todd

 

[Gooserider]

1. A stainless liner should last a LONG time - 20+ years - it also is not horribly expensive, you should be able to get a kit w/ all the parts for about $500 on line, a pro installer might charge more, but not grossly. If the install is straightforward the labor bill should be about the same.

2. If you have a "defective" chimney - i.e. one that is not up to current code, damaged, etc. which it sounds like from your descriptions, the insulation is part of what is REQUIRED to bring the chimney up to NFPA standards, it is only an option if the chimney is sound and you are just trying to meet the cross sectional area requirements.

3. Ovalizing is acceptable as long as it is done in moderation - I would not want to see a pipe ovalized more than about an inch or so. IMHO it is a "last resort" solution however, I think you would be far better to cut the damper frame, keep the liner round all the way, and mark the chimney as "not to be used as conventional fireplace"

4. Not sure what you mean by "bottom bracket" but if you are referring to the "blockoff plate" that goes around the liner about where it enters the damper, you really DO need one if you are serious about heating with the stove. If you don't have one, you will find most of your heat going up the chimney around the outside of the liner. (And NO, packing insulation around the gap is NOT an acceptable substitute!)

5. AFAIK, paint on the brick isn't a big deal, it doesn't turn the brick into a combustible. I don't know how well it will hold up, and I'd be inclined to try and remove it for aesthetic reasons, but there shouldn't be any saftety problems with it.

6. Humidity is not always a big problem a lot depends on the individual setup. Weather sealing and using an outside air kit to feed the stove can often help as much of the drying isn't from the wood heat itself, but because you get more frequent air changes, and the air coming in from the outside is drier. Fewer air changes can mean less need for humidification.

7. Attaching ducts or air distribution systems to stoves and inserts is generally prohibited by code... Code prohibits HVAC intakes w/in 10 feet of a stove, and unless there is a listing for it, so do the stove manuals. Not saying people don't cobble together setups and get away with it, but this is generally neither legal, reccomended or safe.

I think that covers most of your points - other questions feel free to ask.

Gooserider

 

[Stowy]

Thank you. I have learned that is is not good to ask mor than one Q in a post. But, you have gotten them all addressed! Thank you.

Todd

 

[Gooserider]

Opinions differ - I have no problem with multiple questions per post, though it helps if they are broken up a bit. I do like to see "one project / one thread" as it helps keep all the info together so that we don't end up asking and answering the same questions multiple times...

Some boards are real sticklers about this, we aren't but it is something I like to encourage...

Gooserider