Wood seasoning story to chomp on...

[Mr. Kelly]

Hey all...

I'm relaxing up here in central Ontario Canada, where the low temp last night was -28 degrees celsius (you can do the conversion!). Let 's just say it's mighty cold!

My dad and I have this back-and-forth debate going on about seasoning wood. He refuses to entertain the possibility that people on here may be right when they say that many hardwoods benefit, if not require, more than a year to season. When I tell him that the knowledgeable people on here let most hardwoods season for at least 2 seasons, he responds by saying, "That's REDICULOUS!". He says the the "backwoods" folks here know what they're doing, and they sell all their wood that has been seasoned more than a year dirt cheap just to get rid of it, stating that it's not a worthwhile burn after a year of seasoning.

Can't imagine where this is coming from, but the only idea I have is that they may prefer greener wood because it burns slower, and thus seemingly giving them more bang for their buck, so to speak. I suspect, that since the economy up here is really struggling, that any "illusion" of savings seems to convince them that it's a better deal.

Anybody have any thoughts or theories? Do these folks just not know what they're talking about? These guys are pretty outdoorsy kinds of guys. You'd think they'd know this stuff!

 

[smokinj]

Hey all...

I'm relaxing up here in central Ontario Canada, where the low temp last night was -28 degrees celsius (you can do the conversion!). Let 's just say it's mighty cold!

My dad and I have this back-and-forth debate going on about seasoning wood. He refuses to entertain the possibility that people on here may be right when they say that many hardwoods benefit, if not require, more than a year to season. When I tell him that the knowledgeable people on here let most hardwoods season for at least 2 seasons, he responds by saying, "That's REDICULOUS!". He says the the "backwoods" folks here know what they're doing, and they sell all their wood that has been seasoned more than a year dirt cheap just to get rid of it, stating that it's not a worthwhile burn after a year of seasoning.

Can't imagine where this is coming from, but the only idea I have is that they may prefer greener wood because it burns slower, and thus seemingly giving them more bang for their buck, so to speak. I suspect, that since the economy up here is really struggling, that any "illusion" of savings seems to convince them that it's a better deal.

Anybody have any thoughts or theories? Do these folks just not know what they're talking about? These guys are pretty outdoorsy kinds of guys. You'd think they'd know this stuff!

lol most around here cut and burn same day. Even in the old days the rule of thumb was tree must be down by june to burn this season works for a lot of woods but not all types. They may be burning what they can get there hands on.

 

[karri0n]

They are probably burning smoke dragons, which will give the illusion of "burning" longer with wet wood. In reality, they are smoldering longer. If they used dry wood and didn't load it to the brim, they would see efficiency increases.

I'll gladly take that stuff that is "too seasoned" off their hands, though!

 

[Mr. Kelly]

I'll gladly take that stuff that is "too seasoned" off their hands, though!

My thoughts exactly!

Not-so-surprisingly, there are often nice plumes of smoke coming up off their chimneys. Of course, my dad chooses not to see that.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Back when I was a young school boy, one of my best friends (Frank), who's family moved from Quebec to BC, got into a discussion with his father (grade 3 education) about how the Earth revolves around the Sun. His Dad was adamant that the sun revolves around the Earth and with a sweeping motion of his arm across the sky from East to West said something in a very thick French accent that we quoted very often after that, he said "Francois, don't be a stupid boy, you can SEE that the sun revolves around the Earth?".
That was when it first became clear to me as a young lad that some grown-ups are not too bright. ;-P

 

[gzecc]

I think you are exaggeration the seasoning time a little. Most hardwoods require 1 yr. Some, like ash and locust require <1yr. Some like all the oaks require >2yrs.
This is to get the moisture down to 20%. You can still burn at 25%, its just not as efficient a burn. Its like 25yr old scotch and 10yr old scotch, they work just different.

 

[rdust]

I have some old school neighbors around me and they all think I'm crazy for trying to be 3 years ahead. They start cutting their wood in Nov. and burn as they're splitting it, I think most of them are burning old stoves. If they ever upgrade to an EPA stove they'll be just like a lot of the people here who complain about their new stoves not performing like their old smoke dragons.

 

[Pagey]

I've got a friend who uses one of the Vogelzang boxwood stoves. He prefers to burn greener wood, as he does in fact get longer burn times. The stove lets in enough air around the castings that burning with the 20-25% stuff I use would mean constant refueling.

I think it's a combination of 1.) that's how we did it when I was a kid, by god and 2.) burning in non-EPA stoves.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Hey all...

Can't imagine where this is coming from, but the only idea I have is that they may prefer greener wood because it burns slower, and thus seemingly giving them more bang for their buck, so to speak. I suspect, that since the economy up here is really struggling, that any "illusion" of savings seems to convince them that it's a better deal.

Anybody have any thoughts or theories? Do these folks just not know what they're talking about? These guys are pretty outdoorsy kinds of guys. You'd think they'd know this stuff!

Methinks almost 100% of the time, this is "wisdom" passed on down through generation after generation. "That's the way Pa did it and Grandpa did the same. It worked for them and it will work for me. Any other way is bull."

So, you get old time wisdom and new technology. Holy cow, what might happen to this world if everybody did the same as Grandpa? Would there be airplanes in the sky? What about the cars? Sorry, some of the old time wisdom is good and some is no longer wisdom.

I am into my retirement years so to most I am one of the old people. Yet I refuse to do things the same as my grandfather or my father. Thoreau was right; "What people say you can not do, you try and find that your can." (That may not be worded exact but is close at least.)

Like it or not, change is the only constant in this world. Sadly though there are many who refuse to change some things and are the poorer for it.

Let me see now, how many years worth of wood do we have seasoning right now?...

 

[Stevebass4]

i would be buying all that dirt cheap "old" wood as i could

 

[westkywood]

Got as brother that heats exclusively with wood in an old wood stove. He cuts the wood this winter for next winter and throws it in a huge pile under his wood shed. He has to clean his flu once or twice a month. Ive eduacted him on the benefits of seasoning the wood for 2-3 years and he will not do it. He thinks I'm "extreme" for staying 3 years ahead on my wood. When telling him the wood would season better if he stacked it, his response was " well I aint stackin it".
Old school is like no school.......

 

[LLigetfa]

" well I aint stackin it".
Old school is like no school.......

Growing up on the farm, we cut in the Summer and just tossed it in the barn. It was pretty disgusting in there with the smell of mold. There was so much hoar frost on everything from the humidity and it was rusting all the tools in the barn.

We burned same year wood. I still remember my mother complaining about the lousy wood and trying to dry it in the oven of the cookstove. More often than not, it was a chimney fire that cleaned the chimney. My mother would nag my father to clean the chimney when it got so plugged up it wouldn't draft.

After I moved out on my own I burned the same way. Seasoning time was measured in weeks, not months or years. I had one chimney fire in a Selkirk chimney when creosote fell and collected in the Tee.

My parents house burned to the ground from a chimney fire in one of his Selkirk flues. He only ever cleaned the masonry flue the cookstove was on and only when nagged to do so.

I started to burn seasoned wood only after I got an EPA stove.

 

[EKLawton]

I think you are exaggeration the seasoning time a little. Most hardwoods require 1 yr. Some, like ash and locust require <1yr. Some like all the oaks require >2yrs.
This is to get the moisture down to 20%. You can still burn at 25%, its just not as efficient a burn. Its like 25yr old scotch and 10yr old scotch, they work just different.

....the older the smooooother....

 

[PapaDave]

Tis the season.....for this sort of discussion. My older brother had the idea that you cut your wood Aug.- Oct., then burned that winter. Did that for a few years. His wife and sons complained all the time how difficult it was to get a fire going.
When I moved to the area (less than 4 miles from him), the house we bought had (and still has) an Ashley steptop from 1985, that had some air leak issues. I fixed that. I tried burning the wood the PO's left, and some more that we had delivered, and had one heck of a time getting the fire going. So, being new burners, thought we needed more wood in the stove. Once the wet got out of the wood, the stove got so hot everyone was down to their undies and still sweating.
Fast forward about a month, and I made up my mind that I needed dryer wood. My brother, of course, told me "everyone up here gets their wood in the fall, it's just how it's done, you're fine". I told him he was a neanderthal.
Thus, my journey to dry wood nirvana began. The second year here, I had a 10 cord load dropped off (talked my brother into taking the other 10 cord on the truck). I also had 5 cords c/s dropped off for that winter. Started calling the guy in May, but he didn't deliver until Aug., DOH! Got all the c/s stuff stacked as it got here, and in the meantime I was c/s/s the log load. That year was also less than stellar, but better.
3rd year was better still, and this May, I had another 20 cord log load dropped in my processing area. I'm now 2.5 yrs. ahead and the wood I'm burning that was c/s/s last July-Aug (16-17 months ago) is down anywhere from 14-18% (yes, I split the split). I get a stray that sizzles every now and again, but man, what a joy to be able to put 4-5 inch splits in the stove (cold start) with a sheet or 2 of newspaper and have a fire going in about a minute.
My brother is now talking about having another load of logs delivered to his house. I think he's coming out of the neanderthal stage a little.
It's taken a while to get here, and I don't want to go back to wet wood. Now I'd like to get a new stove, and then the learning curve starts anew.

 

[DBoon]

I have two stories to offer on this topic.

First - my own dad, who grew up in a small Indiana town. His family burned wood as their only source of heat for their house. When I was a kid, we had a fireplace only, and all the wood was kept outside in the rain, under snow, etc. and it seemed it was always wet. I remember throwing piece after piece of kindling wood into the fireplace to keep the wood burning as the wood hissed and bubbled out the ends, all the while my dad would try to convince us that we didn't need the kindling to keep the wood burning (fire would go out without kindling). He so mastered the wood supply for the fireplace that my mom permanently upgraded him to a natural gas fireplace in their retirement house. Dad is "unreformed", so to speak. Dad also has enough street and book smarts to know better (lifelong woodworker, built a house with his and my labor, civil engineering degree).

Second - my own father-in-law who had a Taiwan-clone Jotul 118 that he used for 30+ years. I finally twisted his arm to replace it with something newer since there were gaps in the stove everywhere, constant smoke smell in the house, constant creosote plugs in his chimney, etc. etc. My father-in-law has been burning about 6-7 full cords of wood for the last 15 years, and he was getting to the point of needing help getting it all ready. Obviously, I could see the trend - soon, I was going to be doing most of the work to get this wood ready. I told him that a new stove would get his usage down to 5 cords or so, and important thing since it is getting harder for him to do all the work (and since I would soon be doing most of it) - his reply: "bull$%#". He just can't believe that anything has changed in 30 years. He is a major procrastinator and always cut his wood in the late summer then burn it starting a couple of months later. BUT, now in his second year with the new stove, with moderately dry (~25% moisture content wood in the barn, and nearly 20% after two additional weeks next to his wood stove in his basement, he is getting some nice consistent burns and is starting to see the benefits of seasoned 20% m.c. wood. He even admits that the new stove is running better than last year when the wood was wetter, and admits that he is using less wood. I think wetter wood did allow him to control his burns better, so that's why he didn't mind it. I also think he is just not very pro-active, so he would wait too long to get started on his wood. In any case, next year should be even better with meadow-drying wood good for at least half a year of burning. Now for the real punch-line: father-in-law was a degreed forester (bachelors and masters) and practiced forestry for ~10 years.

So, sometimes those who are educated enough to know better DO NOT know better and refuse to learn, or learn reluctantly.
Sometimes those with far less education or experience are willing to listen and learn from those with good experience and wisdom.
And, above all, those with sweeping generalizations along the lines of "that's how it's always been done" without really knowing why are usually those to avoid.

 

[LLigetfa]

So, sometimes those who are educated enough to know better DO NOT know better and refuse to learn, or learn reluctantly.

Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Around here you CAN cut in the summer/fall and burn that winter, but,,,,, you must use some discretion in choosing your trees. Obviously you can't cut live trees and expect them to be ready to burn. However, because of our dry climate many (not all) of the standing dead tree will have wood with a moisture content of less the 20%, at least in the wood that is a little higher off the ground. More often then not the first few rounds near the base of the tree will have moisture content in the high 20% or even over 30%, so you may have to deal with that portion of the wood separately from the rest. If you cut it early enough in the year you can split it small and it will generally dry out enough to burn acceptably, especially when mixed with the other dryer wood, or simply put it in a separate pile for next year which is what I do. I stack the heavy wetter rounds in a stack and leave them until winter when I start using up my dry wood and space opens up in my woodshed, then I'll start splitting the greener stuff and filling up the shed for next year.
Even though we do have available dry wood there are still people around here that burn wood with higher MC than they should, but many of them are burning in older wood stoves where the difference in not nearly so noticeable.
So the problem here is not one of cutting in the fall and burning that winter, the problem is one of simply not knowing (or caring) how much better wood burns when it is dry.

Of course I'm talking native softwoods like spruce, fir and especially pine which are so abundent it doesn't make sense to bother with much else.

 

[wendell]

Dennis, if you need to get rid of all that wood you have that is too old, I'd be happy to help you out.

Just the kind of stand up guy I am.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Wendell, don't you think that would be a little far to haul that stuff? lol

Besides, what do you mean, too old?

 

[wendell]

He says the the "backwoods" folks here know what they're doing, and they sell all their wood that has been seasoned more than a year dirt cheap just to get rid of it, stating that it's not a worthwhile burn after a year of seasoning.

I was referring to the OP, not you! ;-)

 

[firefighterjake]

FFJake and Friend's Views on Burning Wood in the Backwoods of Maine

It's perfectly fine and normal to cut, split and stack your wood in mid- to late-Summer and burn that year.

Of course, should you choose to go this route you also need to know that doing so means . . .

It will be perfectly normal for you to spend a lot of time . . . and I mean a lot of time . . . coaxing a fire to life from a cold start . . . or getting a fire up and going on a reload. Going with more seasoned wood = a stove that comes up to temp quicker which means more time spent sleeping, watching TV, etc. rather than having to ball up the entire Wall Street Journal and attempt to get the fire going for the 14th time in half an hour.

It will be perfectly normal for you to have to clean your chimney every other week or every month . . . and perfectly normal, even expected, that you will be woken up at 2 a.m. from the sound of a chimney fire. If you actually choose to sweep your chimney be prepared for some possible hard work if the creosote has built up thick enough. Going with more seasoned wood = a chimney that stays cleaner longer with less work. Choose wisely: sweeping twice a month or twice a year.

It will be perfectly normal for the house to smell smokey as the "fire" in the firebox produces more smoke than flames or heat on the reloads . . . not to mention the huge volume of smoke spilling out of the chimney making neighbors wonder if someone didn't install a power plant in the neighborhood. Going with more seasoned wood = less smoke visible in the chimney and less smoke being produced on reloads.

It will be perfectly normal for much of the house to be frigidly cold as the stove chugs slowly along expending much of its potential heat energy burning off moisture instead of producing heat which will radiate out into the room . . . until the wood reaches the point where the water has finally cooked off and then at that point it is either time to reload the stove or the fire will take off and really start cranking, causing everyone to complain about the heat. Going with more seasoned wood = more heat, faster heat and a more even heat.

----

I agree with Pagey . . . I think many folks don't season the wood because they're going with what they have learned from their parents and grandparents who were using non-EPA stoves. Sure, it worked . . . kind of, sort of . . . but it just wasn't and still isn't all that efficient. If folks adopted this type of thinking all the time we would still be driving horse and buggies (I mean, they work fine, right . . . who needs a vehicle that can go more miles in less time). Some nuggets of wisdom from the past are good . . . real jems worth remembering . . . and some nuggets of "wisdom" are nothing more than cow nuggets.

Some folks you can convince that a new way is a better way . . . some folks will never change . . . all I know is that last year I thought had decent wood (it was good, but not great) and this year I have better wood and I have seen a definite difference in less wood burned, faster and easier reloads and more heat . . . for me this is enough proof. If other folks insist on still burning less than seasoned wood and they don't mind cutting the extra wood or dealing with the higher probability of a chimney fire . . . bully for them . . . it helps keep the woodcutters and firefighters employed.

 

[karri0n]

Wood Seasoning Story

Truly, the most action packed story since the timeless classics:

"The Chronicle of the Drying Paint"

"Adventures in Grass Growing"

"As the Dough Rose"

The story is told in the first-person, narrated by a particularly articulate split. See below for the excerpt, which also happens to contain the entire novel:

"So there I was, sitting in a stack.

The end."

 

[rphurley]

Wood Seasoning Story

Truly, the most action packed story since the timeless classics:

"The Chronicle of the Drying Paint"

"Adventures in Grass Growing"

"As the Dough Rose"

The story is told in the first-person, narrated by a particularly articulate split. See below for the excerpt, which also happens to contain the entire novel:

"So there I was, sitting in a stack.

The end."

A true Pulitzer prize nominee! LOL

 

[wldm09]

My Dad had an old Timberline wood stove in the early 80's. He built the chimney in the old farmhouse like a brick s--t-house. There were three bays in the hay barn. This year, next year, and the year after. He could light his wood with a match.

I just got lucky having him around. He made me deathly afraid of chimney fires. I HATED all the work we had to do and now look at me... heating with wood. My suburban wifey was positively annoyed last summer when I worked in the woods so much. All that changed the first time the house was 75 degrees up here in Northern WI. Now she loves it...

This spring I will be cutting for the '11-12 season.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I think you are exaggeration the seasoning time a little. Most hardwoods require 1 yr. Some, like ash and locust require <1yr. Some like all the oaks require >2yrs.
This is to get the moisture down to 20%. You can still burn at 25%, its just not as efficient a burn. Its like 25yr old scotch and 10yr old scotch, they work just different.

Depends entirely on the size of the splits, the place they're sitting while seasoning and your climate. I'm happily and comfortably burning right now some small splits of both red oak and black birch cut this spring, split late this summer, and they're fine-- not ideal but fine. You're of course right about the moisture content, but how long it takes to get there is pretty widely variable depending on size and drying conditions.