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Woodstock or Jotul

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Ian, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. Ian

    Ian New Member

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    Hello. I know this isn't an original topic here but I thought I'd start fresh and lay out my particulars. I have bigger (about 3,000 square feet) house in southwest New Hampshire. I recently had the home insulated but it's an older place and will never be tight. I'm currently the east end of the home in a room that's about 400 square feet with an older Woodstock stove. Great stove but boy, it burns through a lot of wood. This spring I'll be looking to upgrade and am trying to decide whether to get a Woodstock Fireview or a Jotul Oslo 500. Given the layout of the home I know I'll never be able to heat the entire house with just a stove, but like I am now, I'll be running the stove constantly.i could go bigger, I suppose, but I worry about overpowering the room the stove is in. I will be putting in a heating vent between the room and our bedroom just above it, so that will help, but I still think going with the Progress for example, would be too much. Would welcome any thoughts on the pros and cons of each stove.

    A few things...

    Love the burn time of the Woodstock but some have said cat technology is old technology and should avoid it.

    I know the Oslo is a really simple stove to run. What about the Fireview.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Ian

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  2. charly

    charly Guest

    Fireview is easy to run,,,,get it up to cat temp, 250, close the by pass, set the draft to a desired burn level and your good to go. Woodstock is coming out with a new stove soon,, might be something to look into as well.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  3. Ian

    Ian New Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning toward the Fireview. I really like the older Woodstock I have now, but as I said, it's wood eater. Would just like something more efficient. Do you know anything about this Woodstock model that may be coming out? Should I weary of buying a new model and just stick with their proven, more established stoves, like the Fireview or Progress?
  4. Flamestead

    Flamestead Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
    Windsor County, Vermont
    I am in 3600 or so sq ft house plus full walk-out basement, insulated but shallow walls, new windows, sub par attic insulation. My PH is in the kitchen, roughly 280 sq ft. The kitchen has a doorway to a small entryway and then to the living room at one corner. On the other side of the kitchen it is open to a 5ft wide central hallway. Just under 8' ceilings. Some days we run a fan to help move the air. In milder weather we leave it off.

    Until this cold snap we were heating entirely with the PH (used less than 100 gal of oil in the balmy 2011-2012 winter). Doors to rooms on the far side of the central hallway are closed but we sleep in one (wife reports it is 48 degrees in there, hence the oil again tonight).

    We burn a considerable amount of wood (8 cord of Red Maple). The PH has been working great - smaller loads in warmer weather, full loads tonight. It is my first cat stove and first stove with "glass", and I'm not overly keen on the regular cleaning, but I do like seeing the fire. I can tell the cat could stand being brushed off now, but there are no plans to let the stove get below 400 degrees anytime soon. Still find it odd to not see smoke from the chimney. Intend to add a second stove in the diagonally opposite room, and hope to not burn much more wood by not needing to push the PH as hard as we do now. The PH is very controllable and hasn't cooked us out.
  5. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Surprised you need to clean the window. Is your wood dry? My window stays crystal clear.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  6. Flamestead

    Flamestead Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
    Windsor County, Vermont
    No moisture meter data. The trees were dropped two years ago and it was CSS by May of 2011. It could be drier, for sure, but I have no creosote buildup in the liner. My goal is to get ahead another year so I can put the wood into the woodshed the summer of the year I burn it (it stays out, covered, now until mid/late fall), but I won't see the benefit of that for another couple of years. I'm cleaning the cat and glass about monthly, and am burning about a cord/mo.
  7. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Sounds good. Is you glass just hazy? Any dark accumulation probably indicates slightly wet or punky wood. A good fire (and you are indicating good hot fires = "no plan to burn under 400 anytime soon") should burn off any deposits, but a slight haze might remain. Once a month isn't worrisome, as long as you aren't getting a progressively darker window, with a lot of brown or black stuff by the end of a month....I've been burning for a week since I used a natural bristle paint brush to dust off the window, and it is clear. Not to worry, also, if you have a clean stack. Just surprised you are having a problem with the glass, and would like you to be able to enjoy the great view I get.
  8. Flamestead

    Flamestead Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
    Windsor County, Vermont
    Yes, a progressively hazier haze, and not dark at all. The clean view is so nice, isn't it!

    Ian, if you haven't, dig around with the search function, as there are lots of descriptions of house and stove combinations throughout.
  9. charly

    charly Guest

    Ian,
    They are very tight lipped about the new model...All I heard was that it was suppose to be a no thrills model, but yet retain all the build and functional qualities that Woodstock is known for... No I wouldn't be afraid to buy any new models from Woodstock. They retro fit any improvements on an existing model. Remember,,,,you have 6 months to run one of their stoves,, at that time you can exchange it out for a bigger or smaller stove or simply get 100% of your money back, and they'll pay for the freight back...So you can feel assured your not stuck with what you bought if it doesn't fit your needs in anyway.. That's a great way to see what you like and not be stuck with something,, then taking a loss to sell it...that's all out of the picture with Woodstock.... just goes to show how well people like their product and customer service,,, everyone's happy, their happy,,, what nicer business could you have ? I'm sure everyone there looks forward to coming into work everyday,,,if they didn't I'm sure they wouldn't answer the phone any time you call,,, that's been my experience...Hope you can find a company and stove that will fit your needs.
    Charlie
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  10. aansorge

    aansorge Minister of Fire

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    Southern Minnesota
    Your current woodstock may be fine for you; it may just need to have the gaskets replaced. Worn out gaskets allow more air into the stove increasing the rate of burn.

    Look on the stove for a model name or number or take a picture and post it on here.
  11. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    What you should avoid is people who sling that kind of BS.;)
    "Burn tube" technology may have been developed after cat technology, but that does not mean that it's necessarily better. The most efficient stoves on the planet use a catalyst. Generally, cat stoves burn ~10% more efficiently than non-cats. The BS slingers will whine about the extra maintenance with a cat, but with a well designed stove, it's really not a big deal. For example, removing the cat from a Fireview is about as difficult as getting a beer out of the refrigerator. Let the stove cool down to, say, 200°F. Open the top. Reach in and grab the cat with a gloved hand. Dust the ash off of it. Put it back. Depending on how much wood you burn, you might need to do this once a month, probably more like once or twice a season.
    mcameron likes this.
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. Cat technology may actually be seeing a revival due to stricter air pollution regs. If you like the Fireview I wouldn't hesitate getting one. Woodstock is a good company. That said, the Oslo is a great stove too. You wouldn't go wrong with either choice.
  13. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
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    Welcome to the forum Ian.

    That is a large home to heat with wood! Yet, I would not worry at all about overpowering the room where the stove is. That can be taken care of easily and in addition, the Fireview just does not overpower you unless the outdoor temperature is, say, 50 and you light a big fire. Then it will be uncomfortable no matter what stove you have. But the little trick of using a small fan, lowest setting. Set it in doorway or hallway and point it toward the stove room really moves the warm air out and to the further rooms. Don't try to move the warm air; move the cool air toward the warm air.

    For what it is worth, when we put in the Fireview in, we cut our wood needs in half. We also stay a lot warmer now! The heat is different from the soapstone stove and we just don't get uncomfortable with a harsh heat.

    I laugh every time I hear that about avoiding the "old" technology. Usually that is spread by some dumb sales person who has not cat stoves to sell. This is about the poorest form of so-called salesmanship there is. One can not build up their product by running down the others. The cat technology works (even though a few manufacturers once had some problems with it) and the Woodstock stoves are a proven winner. In addition to this, you will find that your chimney stays much cleaner....if you burn good wood. We've cleaned ours one time and we're into our sixth year. We cleaned it after the 2008-2009 burning season and got about a cup of soot; no creosote.

    On the maintenance of the cats, if you burn good wood, you will not have to clean the cat very often but even then, it is about a 2-3 minutes task.

    Charly really hit on the running of the stove. It really is simple. If you can walk and chew gum at the same time, you can operate a Woodstock stove. Get the stove top to temperature, engage the catalyst, cut the draft down and the stove is good for many hours. It really is that simple.

    Ian, you have an ideal situation. You live in NH and the Woodstock factory is also in NH, not far from you. If I were in your shoes, I'd take a day and drive up to the factory. You will be met by some very likeable people. They will give you a tour of the factory and you can see some of the stoves being built. It is also a good time to pick out the color (of the cast) you like and if you really want to take it big time, you can even choose the stone!

    And do not forget that famous guarantee Woodstock will give you! And do not forget all the satisfied customers they have out here. Their customer service is second to none. Give then a call: 800-866-4344
  14. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Is 280 a typo? I would think a PH in a 280sq ft room would be called an OVEN!
  15. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    When I shut the stove/air all the way down for a long overnight burn, the next morning my window will ussually have a few dark (not black, but not just hazy either) spots, mostly behind (or infront depending how your looking at it) the andirons. The rest of the glass just gets a yellowish haze to it, and their is a 1 or 2" absolutely crystal clear stripe across the top (I guess that's from the "air wash"?). But if I load it up, and fire it up again, an hour later most of that is gone/burned off, except for behind the andirons, which seems to stay there.

    I have yet to clean my glass off. I might try that tonight before I fire it up. I let it burn out today after last nights 8 hour burn on 3 splits.
  16. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Regarding CAT stoves. I'm 2 weeks into my first stove, ever (read: I didn't know the first thing about how to operate a stove). If you have read this thread, you know as much as you need to know about how to run a CAT stove. You light the fire, 10 to 15 minutes later the pipe reaches 250 - 300 degree's. Shut the air down to your liking (ussually almost all the way down), and close the bypass. Now wave bye bye to the stove and say see ya tomorow, cause that is the next time you'll need to adjust it most of the time.

    Before I bought this stove, I was a bit concerned about operating it as well. After 30 minutes into my first seasoning fire, I laughed and said "are you kidding me, THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT?". To me, operations of a CAT stove should not even be considered or discussed when selecting a stove. You should look at heat output, burn times, cosmetics(does it match your decor), and clearances (whether it will fit in your space or not...). If it meets those characteristics, whether it has a CAT or not is a mute point if you ask me.
    BrianK, Backwoods Savage and Joful like this.
  17. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest


    Let the war begin ;lol

    Just kidding Dennis right on as always ! I might have gone with Woodstock if I lived next door to them. Good stoves good people ! You would probably be needing a larger stove for that size house than the F500 where you live most likely the F-600 or F50 - F55. I love my F-50 but to be honest you should really check out Woodstock as well seeing as your so close to them. Woodstock is known for superb quality and I can attest to how well Dennis stove works ! It dang near melts the house at times. ;)

    Pete
  18. Treacherous

    Treacherous Minister of Fire

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    Until a CAT model comes out with the rear clearances of my Endeavor they won't work for me. Maybe Travis Industries has a hybrid Endeavor model on the horizon?
  19. mfglickman

    mfglickman Minister of Fire

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    Is yours the old cat fireview like mine, a 201 model? Or does it not have a cat at all? Mine has the cat assembly on the left side under the lid, and the air is adjusted via the door sliders, there are no numbers on the air slider.
  20. Flamestead

    Flamestead Feeling the Heat

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    Machria, the layout is a classic 4-square (four square rooms per floor) with two central chimneys and a central hall down the middle. 17' x 17' kitchen, minus cupboard space, etc. gets me to a figure of 280. Each room is a corner room (34 linear feet of exterior wall), and the walls are thinner than standard 2x4 construction, so less insulation, and four large windows per room. A door on one corner, and most of the side toward the central hall is open, so I'm getting decent natural circulation. I could run the stove wide-open in October and turn it into an oven, but in January with it -10 outside I am quite happy to let it run at 550 - 575 degrees.

    Ian, we've had an excellent experience with a new-model stove (ordered before anyone else had one in their own home). It isn't like this is their first rodeo (thinking of materials, finishes, etc). There have been design changes to the PH, and they have updated us to the latest, free of charge, which was a pleasant surprise.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  21. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    Very well put!!
  22. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    Not to go off topic, but the layout description sounds a lot more like a center hall colonial c.1800 than a typical American foursquare c.1910. The description of walls thinner than 2x4 construction also hints its post and beam ( hence pre1850). Is it a gable or hip roof?

    How old is your house?
  23. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    The VC Defiant's 3" rear clearances would like to take this time to say "hello." ;lol
  24. Ian

    Ian New Member

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    Dennis: thank you for the advice. Really appreciate it. Question: does positioning the fan so it's pointed toward the room with the stove in it rather than toward the rest of the house make a big difference? I currently have fan in the corner of the doorway but I have it blowing toward the rest of the house.
  25. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Hi Ian welcome to the forum! Your home size would challenge any stove! If I were in your situation I would go for the largest size firebox available, then pick what you find attractive or in your price range. The vast majority of stoves sold today are EPA approved so be sure to get this type. If you like Woodstock they make a good looking quality stove with good support and with 3K sq. ft I would only consider the Progress Hybrid for it's wide range of output.
    I personally like convection stoves because of the reduce radiant heat so sitting next to one is comfortable plus with a blower you can push the heat out and away from the stove. I heat 1632 sq. ft. with a convection stove with a 2 story Gambrel style home and the temperature is within 2 degrees between 1st and 2nd floor.
    I don't want a pissing contest between cat and secondary burn stoves and feel they are both good so pick what works best for you. I feel hybrid stoves will become more popular in the future and offer the cleanest burns and the best of both worlds.

    Ray

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