woodstock progress hybrid epa numbers/clearances
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When I received the email about the shipping delay this past Tuesday, I replied asking about clearances. Mike said it would be a day or two and would email me "AS SOON AS" they had the numbers. The way-ay-ay-ting is the hardest part.
Waulie said:
Look @ the bright side, soon you'll be waiting for two things. SANTA CLAUS is coming too..................................................
I just heard from WS. For the 10" leg option, the front clearance tests out to 16-18â€, and requires a minimum Hearth R-value of 0.59. My 1/2" Hardibacker + 3/4 brick is not up to the job. They are still testing with additional heat shields to bring the clearance/R-value numbers down, hopefully to FV specs. The Progress just puts out an enormous amount of heat. Let's wait for the numbers to be officially posted on their website for final validation.
I think its great they kept me informed, I really enjoy doing business with this company. They are as anxious as the rest of us to finalize this thing. Looks like later this week we may get some more news on the additional test results.
I think its great they kept me informed, I really enjoy doing business with this company. They are as anxious as the rest of us to finalize this thing. Looks like later this week we may get some more news on the additional test results.
Front clearance is measured from the front leading edge of the stove. Its how much hearth you must have in front of the stove.
Thanks for posting that Tony. Well, for some odd reason this thing will not take a reply and I've waited 2 minutes...
Uh oh. I sure hope BG is right about measuring from the glass. Did they mention if the rear clearance has been pinned down yet? If it comes in at 10 inches, I will have 17.5 inches from the front of the stove. Cutting it close. :shut:
Also, with an R-value of 0.59, I probably shouldn't trust my mystery hearth. Anyone know a trick for figuring out what your hearth is made out of? ;-)
Edit: I just removes a piece of trim from my hearth. It appears I have 1/4 inch tile over about an inch of concrete/mortar. Uh oh again. This probably only counts as ember protection. I may be completely hosed. >:-( I might have to resume stove shopping, or figure out a quick, cheap hearth fix.
It does sounds like you will need a better hearth. One option might be to build it up and extend it at the same time.
fire_man said:
That R-value for the hearth is a bummer for those with ember protection only hearths.. I think with a heat shield they could reduce that number so 99% of all hearths would work.. My 2 layers of 1/2" Durock only provide .52 R-value and would not be adequate not that I am thinking of buying the Progress, just saying.. So far I like my T-5 and it seems to easily heat my house, is very easy to use and puts out some serious heat.. This R-value requirement is why I did the post about stoves needing ember protection only.. More than likely Woodstock will be working to reduce the R-value needed..
Ray
Is there some kind of bonding agent that would allow me to place Durock directly over the existing tile? I would be quite a pain to drill and screw into the mortar. What about metal studs? If I cfould attach metal studs directly to the existing tile then fill the spaces with Roxul, then cover and tile, would that work?
I'm on the list for the plinth base model. My hearth is built like they recommend in the fireview manual... Sheet metal over wood floor, then durock concrete board then ceramic tile. I don't have the option to build up the hearth as the flue exit would then be too high. I guess I could rip out the exsisting hearth, cut away the wood floor and get down to the concrete slab this particular part of the house is built over.... don't know if all that is worth the effort to replace a fireview that heats the house just fine.....
Waulie, in order to build up the hearth it is going to need a couple layers of Durock, ideally well anchored in place. I am not a tiling pro, but here's how I would approach doing this.
First, get the cement board cut and fitted. With a magic marker, label the front edges clearly on the top side so that you have each piece's orientation established. Temporarily use duct tape on the perimeter to stop the sheets from moving. Then, take an 1/8" masonry drill and drill pilot holes thru both layers until you hit the tile, then go about 1/4" deeper. This is to mark the tile with a pilot. Do this for all your screw holes as anchor prep. Now remove the durock and clean up the tile making sure you can easily locate all the pilot holes. Then sand down the tiles with a fairly coarse grit. Now, with a 1/4" drill bit, enlarge the holes to accommodate small rawl plugs for your screw anchors. Vacuum, then damp towel the tiles clean. Then apply a 1/4" notched trowel layer of latex modified thinset to the tiles and set the durock on the bed of thinset. Use 1 3/4" cement board screws and screw down the cement board, anchored by the rawl plugs. Let that set for a day. Then tile.
First, get the cement board cut and fitted. With a magic marker, label the front edges clearly on the top side so that you have each piece's orientation established. Temporarily use duct tape on the perimeter to stop the sheets from moving. Then, take an 1/8" masonry drill and drill pilot holes thru both layers until you hit the tile, then go about 1/4" deeper. This is to mark the tile with a pilot. Do this for all your screw holes as anchor prep. Now remove the durock and clean up the tile making sure you can easily locate all the pilot holes. Then sand down the tiles with a fairly coarse grit. Now, with a 1/4" drill bit, enlarge the holes to accommodate small rawl plugs for your screw anchors. Vacuum, then damp towel the tiles clean. Then apply a 1/4" notched trowel layer of latex modified thinset to the tiles and set the durock on the bed of thinset. Use 1 3/4" cement board screws and screw down the cement board, anchored by the rawl plugs. Let that set for a day. Then tile.
Thanks! Yikes, though. I'm not adverse to projects. In fact, I love them. Unfortunately, I just don't have time right now to take that on and the stove is suppose to be coming in less than two weeks. Hmmm. I guess I don't really have a choice. I'll start planning on the hearth rebuild and wait for the new numbers with the bottom heat shield. Maybe my bizarre hearth will be OK with the heat shield.
I might plan on building a metal stud frame to attached the durock to. That way, I'll only need a few anchors into the existing tile to hold the whole thing in place. It might just save time in the long run.
Ohh - I can see why they would be working on trying to work up additional shielding. I can imagine there are quite a few folks wanting to upgrade over FV 'ember only' hearths (such as myself) for whom this could well be a deal killer. I certainly can't see re-building my hearth this year - that was one heck of a project when I did it the first time.
I sure hope that this turns out to be a false alarm or that things get worked out such that they can return to the ember protection only hearth (or something very close to it...). What exactly is the R-value of a single layer of dura-rock with tile? ha!
I sure hope that this turns out to be a false alarm or that things get worked out such that they can return to the ember protection only hearth (or something very close to it...). What exactly is the R-value of a single layer of dura-rock with tile? ha!
Durock's website says a half-inch sheet has an R-value of 0.39. Tile can't be much, I'm getting different results trying to search that, probably because there are so many different types of tile. But, it appears to be slightly less than 0.1. So, unless I'm missing something, you'd have an R-value of somewhere between 0.4 and 0.5.
Hmm, that would have been a recent change. The data sheets I have say R=.52/ inch. Can you provide a link? Ceramic tile has little insulative value. .08 I think for 1/4" tile.
Here's the link. Chimney sweep online has it listed as 0.39 too.
http://www.usg.com/rc/data-submittal-sheets/panels/durock/durock-cement-board-submittal-CB399.pdf
So, now that the kids are asleep I took a closer look at my hearth. I actually have very close to 1.5 inches of cement mortar beneath 1/4 inch tile. That would give me a R-value of at least 0.3. Here's to hoping they are able to knowck that number down a bit.
http://www.usg.com/rc/data-submittal-sheets/panels/durock/durock-cement-board-submittal-CB399.pdf
So, now that the kids are asleep I took a closer look at my hearth. I actually have very close to 1.5 inches of cement mortar beneath 1/4 inch tile. That would give me a R-value of at least 0.3. Here's to hoping they are able to knowck that number down a bit.
Yeah... so basically I have "Not enough" - heh. I figure the tile is "fluff" and not worth counting, but then again, I suppose if it came down to .01 delta to make the cut I'd find some value to give it, but if I were actually building for this application I don't think I would even count on it at all (typical engineer eh?).
Well, I'm not going to go panic yet any more than I would celebrate on information provided unofficially. I'll wait for the official word from Woodstock then see what course of action to take. Rumors are exciting - and I have to admit, this is the one aspect that for some reason I had not worried much about for some reason... Optimistic denial is a powerful thing eh?
Well, I'm not going to go panic yet any more than I would celebrate on information provided unofficially. I'll wait for the official word from Woodstock then see what course of action to take. Rumors are exciting - and I have to admit, this is the one aspect that for some reason I had not worried much about for some reason... Optimistic denial is a powerful thing eh?
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