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Would like some advice on how to ID a Stihl

Post in 'The Gear' started by duran7, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    Concord, NH
    Hello:

    I am a newbie wood burner going on 5 years. Mostly, every year I appreciate how little I know. I have most of my wood up which is progress. Although there are other forums to join and ask questions I thought I would stay here and see if someone might be able to counsel me. I am learning.

    I have my Husky 372 XP running great and have had some locals get me up to speed on how to make a chain sharp! So, that is my primary tool and I have enjoyed getting to know it more and more. It just runs!

    I picked up a Stihl today at a yard sale which advertised a log splitter. Log splitter was too much of a project and if the current owner was not fixing it, I was not going to fix it. On the way home I went
    through the high rent district and saw another yard sale. For $10 I figured why not pick up a Stihl.

    Unlike the Husky which has a stamped model and SN, you can't figure anything out on this Stihl. After hours on other forums I am not much closer. What I did learn is the SN is useless unless the saw was registered at time of purchase. What I gather is helpful is the casting numbers. The recurring number on the castings is 1120.

    I got it to run. Runs great for 30 under load and then loses all power. Remove the load and it runs just fine. I figure to trouble shoot the issues I need to figure out what it is. Of course the down side of all this is I could have been splitting or collecting more wood today so it has cost me a day. At times I wonder if I should just stow it and move on. It's not like I need it. Just part of the fun of collecting wood is tinkering with the gear.


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  2. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    Well, after some searching I find I have an "occasional use" model 010/011 AVQ (anti vibration/quick stop) So much for scoring a professional grade saw. Now to figure out the actual engine (MAHLE 38 ZD 18) is for size. I thinking those numbers might be telling me something. So far all I can find is it has a displacement of 37 cc. When I put it to the task, it bogs and looses all power. Remove load, runs like a scalded cat. Very odd. I'd like to think I can figure this out.......pointers welcome. I can't imagine it is all about 37cc vs 70cc.
  3. Thistle

    Thistle Minister of Fire

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  4. amateur cutter

    amateur cutter Minister of Fire

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    Try tuning the H side a little richer or out. Also check the fuel line very carefully, I've seen the saws run fine till you put them in the wood, then the load flexes the av mounts & opens a small crack in the line. That's actually a decent little limb saw. Nice deal for $ 10.00. A C
    ScotO likes this.
  5. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    You guys are great!

    Thistle, thanks for pointing out the specs on the 010 vs the 011. From what I can tell, the difference was all about displacement. 101 being 37ccm and the 011 being 41ccm. I have come up with nothing on the MAHLE 38 ZD 18 on the cylinder head (pot) casting. Maybe the 38 is code for a 38mm stroke which would mean I have a 011. That would be a bonus!

    AC: Thanks for the thought on the fuel line. Ah....I am a virgin when it comes to Stihl and in general 2 cycle is new to me so go slow with me. Give me a 4 cycle Tecumseh and I am good to go. These silly little 2 cycle carbs look like a swiss watch to me. I can see I have access to 2 stacked screws, high and low which I have to sort out. And a single screw. It sure would like to locate a service manual before I start twisting jets. On a whole, other than user manuals, I am not finding much help on Stihl other than forum discussion. I will follow the fuel line and look for cracks. It is quite amazing how it dies when fully engaged for 30 seconds. The chain stops and the saw is close to stalling. Lift from the cut, and vroom! All RPM, no torque.
  6. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    That 37cc saw will be a wonderful compliment to your 70cc saw. If you can get it running nice, I suspect you'll find yourself using that heavy 70cc saw less and less.
    ScotO likes this.
  7. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    That is likely a model 011. Mahle made and still makes a lot of OEM Stihl cylinders. It means the cylinder is the original. 1120 is the series number of Stihl saws which included the 009, 010, 011, 012 saws. Check the compression. If it is low there is not much you can do other than a rebuild of the P&C. Low is less than 120PSI. Generally they do not start if they have a cracked gas line, but I would replace that anyway (they are cheap). It could also be a bad coil (they can fail over time).

    For $10 that is a good deal, especially if it has good compression.
  8. rkshed

    rkshed Feeling the Heat

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    Is the handle cracked on the bottom of the saw?
    If so, it may be flexing enough to cause the trigger linkage to act as though you are releasing the throttle and applying less fuel.
    Weird but this just happened Friday to my Jred 455.
  9. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    great deal on that little limbing saw. Two things, coils can be had on ebay and are relatively cheap (both new and used) so find one and try it out. As for the carburetors on these saws, they are very simple. You just need to understand how they work (many tutorials on youtube and the internet), once you get the basics down they are very easy to rebuild and tune. As a baseline setting, turn the stacked screws in the whole way til the bottom out (don't over-tighten them, just snug them). Figure out which is the high screw and the low screw , there will be an "H" and an "L" stamped in the carburetor block near the screws. Back the "L" screw out one full turn, back the "H" screw out one and a quarter turns. Fine tune it from there. I'm looking at picking up a 372XP later today, looking forward to it too (and I'm a Stihl guy) ;)
    smokinj likes this.
  10. Freeheat

    Freeheat Minister of Fire

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    I just totally rebuilt a older 011 , I bet its a carb issue/ fuel line , the fuel line to replace isn't horrable but its not fun, the only word of caution is some of the gaskets are not aviable anymore.

    JIM
  11. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    You guys have been most helpful.

    I talked to a few guys this weekend as well and the feeling that I needed to back out the H needle a tad so it would cut when put to the wood. But move in very small increments and test. I backed out about 75 degrees and it kept running through the cut...much better. Still, not strong, but would not just stop on what IMO was minimal load.

    Next issue is no oil to chain. When I cleaned it externally....with air....seemed to me I had good oil as it kinda just oozed out. Now, dry chain. So, likely a carb rebuild and some issues around the oil pump or tubes. I am going to stick with it but need to get back to splitting....if the heat would just break. In the event others might find this helpful, here are two useful links which I will add to.

    Oil flow suggestions
    1120 rebuild
    009 Parts List and diagram....best I could find
  12. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    That is the one I would take. I missed 2-372's for 350.00 by min's!
    ScotO likes this.
  13. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    SmokinJ, I bought it yesterday! I got to go pick it up, maybe this evening if time permits. It is in great shape, needs an on/off switch, and a good cleaning/tune-up. I'll also open the muffler up ASAP, 'cause that's how I roll. I got the XP, a 20" husky bar with 2 chains, a 32" husky bar with one chain, and a 20" Stihl Rollomatic ES bar, all for $400.00! I think I made out OK!
    Thistle likes this.
  14. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Did you run it?
  15. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Yeah, I ran it. Great compression, revs hard and fast. I think I made out alright...
    Thistle and smokinj like this.
  16. Thistle

    Thistle Minister of Fire

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    Helluva deal!! ::-)
    ScotO likes this.
  17. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    OP back again. Not to hijack the thread......with a toy saw....but.....why not.

    I found more fuel on H certainly helps. I think a clean air filter will help with starting. Starts easy with it off. Starts hard with it on. I think I can handle the carb issues and may even get a rebuild kit. It starts, runs and cuts. I think some more work will yield better cut results. My compression tester is MIA. Peeked through the spark plug and bore is mirror shiny. Still, I will see if I can find mine or borrow one.

    My main issue now is no bar oil. I understand this is an impulse oiler. Thus, when running with bar off and some revs, I should see oil being pumped out. Zip. When I hold it upside down, I get some oil from a small hole with what looks like the top of a small cotter pin. Not sure what that is all about. My impulse oiler has a rubber seal around a silver disc. Almost like a disk brake caliper. You can depress it and nothing happens. I have read about these needing a new diaphragm if you can find them. I have read the internal hose can fall off. I don't want to split the case. I have read that you drain the old oil and put in a gas/oil mix and let it sit. Might solve a clog. Or, remove the impulse pump and clean. Any folks with prior experience on this 009/010/011/012 series oil pump?

    Thanks!
  18. amateur cutter

    amateur cutter Minister of Fire

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    Pull the cap, drain the oil, & take a look in the tank. You should be able to see the filter & line in the tank. Make sure it's hooked up, then grab the line with a piece of wire etc. & you should be able to fish the filter out through the hole. Clean or replace it, & run some light oil or ATF through the system & see if the oiler moves it. If it does, go back to bar oil & see what happens. A C
  19. amateur cutter

    amateur cutter Minister of Fire

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    Did you get the 066 carcass too?
  20. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Running that saw with the H screw trimmed too lean is not the recipe for long life. Neither is tuning it up with a dirty air filter and then replacing the filter. This can lead to a too-lean situation. Make sure you re-tune any time you replace the air or fuel filters, as they can play into the air/fuel mix.

    When you tune, you'll find there's a sweet spot with some range. Aiming toward the leaner end of the sweet spot will give you a little more power, with more heat on the piston. Aiming toward the richer end of the sweet spot will save your piston, at the cost of a little power and a little carbon.
  21. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Dont know if its been said but you can run the serial #'s and it will date the saw to the year it was made.
  22. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    First, some pictures.

    My saw must be a little different. I tried to pull the filter out but it seemed to be attached. Let it drain over night, try again in day light, it definitely was attached. Visually, it looked like it was attached to the diaphragm pump. So, I went at it from the other side and removed the diaphragm pump all together and there was the filter and hose. Removed hose, filter and did some diagnosis.

    The small hole at 11 in flange where the bump attaches connects to the crankcase and "transports" pressure impulses to the oil pump. I had hoped it was clogged but compressed air moved the piston and or vented out the spark plug, all seems to be clear. The oil tube was and is clear. The filter was saturated with oil, can't see an issue there. I am left with taking the pump apart which requires a tiny cir-clip remover which I don't have. Big ones, yes, small ones like this, no.

    [​IMG]

    Second picture is of the pump and filter. Not all that interesting but might be useful to someone down the road. You are looking at the back of the pump which projects into the oil tank. The plastic disc holds the foam filter onto the pump and then the hose onto the nipple. The impulse hole (now at 1 o'clock) is a bit gummed up. Hopefully once I get it apart for some cleaning. it will work like it should. Spark plug has no reason being there. Just was.

    [​IMG]

    As for running the SN. I did read you can send Stihl an note via their website and ask for details on the saw based on the SN 214454508. I did that but understand they can only comment if the saw was registered at time of sale. And, I understand Stihl can and will take their time in responding. I am optimistic I can get her to run again. Did not want to run it any more until I could get some bar oil flowing. Then I will delve deeper into correct carb tuning.
  23. duran7

    duran7 New Member

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    Update. Well, as I ran the mental tapes back in AC...it is smok'n humid and soon hot too in NH....I decided to pursue the "stuck check valve" scenario. Split the pump as a small screwdriver can get the pseudo cir-clip off but not back on, so carefully I took things apart. The diaphragm is just as fragile as people say. Cleared the gunk out....really was not much. Removed the diaphragm and worked on putting compressed air through the feed nipple in the same direction the oil would flow. Nothing. Nothing reverse direction either. Stumped, I came back in and looked at the 009 drawing I found on line (see above). Check valve is inside the brass feed nipple. No idea how to get that apart without some damage. The drawing showed the ball was on the outboard side so with greater assertion, I pushed my probe into the ball. It was stuck! Air...nothing....more fiddling with probe and eureka, air now flowing successfully in the same direction as the oil. The good news, it all went back together and it would seem I did not damage the diaphragm. Oil now flows to bar. Mission accomplished.

    Struggled with getting it started but once started I could tune it some. I need to now go to school on the carb tuning. I have it in a place where it won't bog when you go full throttle and it keeps cutting. Release throttle, slows and pops along w/o chain moving. 100% throttle held, backed off until no skips so H is not too rich. L is right as it does not hesitate when I jump the throttle. But, I am sure I can do some more homework. When I get that new air filter, I can get it done right. Assuming my starting issues go away when I get it adjusted correctly, I think I can skip the carb rebuild for now. I just have a few missing screws to source. I split a 1/2 cord by hand before 8 so I figured I could play with my toy saw. A retired logger said anything under 3 ci will be a disappointment. I now appreciate what he is talking about. But, many a tree I have limbed with the 372XP and your arms can feel it.
  24. amateur cutter

    amateur cutter Minister of Fire

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    100% throttle held, backed off until no skips so H is not too rich

    Actually, you want a little "skip" @ wot throttle and no load, we call that 4 stroking, it should then smooth out under load. This is the best tune by ear you can get for power & longevity. If it runs smooth & fast it's a bit lean & you risk piston damage under load. A C

    BTW, nice job on fixing the oiler, & my apologies for leading you astray on the filter. I was working on a newer saw in my head.
    StihlHead likes this.
  25. blel

    blel Feeling the Heat

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    I inherited an 011 about a year ago. It's a great little saw. So often you don't really need anything any bigger. I find I use it more than the 028

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