You all have heard it before 'outside is the only place for my chimney'

[MedicineMan4040]

First a big hello to all here.

Attached (hopefully) our new (to us) home and a good ideal of the stove pipe run. We'd looked a long time for a house and basically
took what we could find in the area we wanted to be in. I want to burn wood, she was/is not so keen at all.
The only place the wife will allow is in the basement corner but getting her to even consider a woodstove was a victory.
I explained that chimneys do better when inside the house envelope.....she then complained with the thought of a chase running up through
the living room above. She finally said OK to a woodstove but in the basement and the flu outside. I explained negative pressure/etc. and she
said if it doesn't work to build a chase around the outside flue....and if that doesn't work, well she's just not going to let me put a chase in the
living room

So stove inside on concrete slab, pipethrough the wall (wall is cinder block) to a clean out T,and straight up with the good double wall stainless insulated pipe.

So here is my list of things I can do to help this stove out in a not so opportune location, i.e. things to help prevent or lessen backdraft issues.
Do these sound right? Can you add more idea please? Luckily maybe? that this is older 70's construction and probably not tight at all.

1. Outside air kit install
2. Make sure the air robbers (dryer, kithen range vent,etc.) are off when running the woodstove.
3. Check insulation in the home's attic and weather sealing around windows/doors on the third level especially.
4. Get the good double wall stainless insulated pipe.
5. Run the pipe way into the sky (is there a code on how high you can go, besides your wallet?)

On the plus side I will (next spring) be able to add 2 inch foam board to the exterior of the basement (It is only fully bermed on one side), then synthetic stucco 3 sides of the basement. I've done this quite a few times to where I'm living now.

I do appreciate any thoughts on how to turn this lemon into lemonaid
Robert

 

[bholler]

Outside is fine and has absolutely no effect on negative pressure around the stove. Yes it will negatively effect draft some but it looks like you will have plenty of height to overcome that

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Bholler thanks so much for jumping in. I'm kinda new to this but I've enjoyed an Avalon insert in our current fireplace for years (27 years). Best thing I ever did was get the chimney sweep to install a stainless steel flue liner.
I think my next step (once we close on the house in 19 days) is to get on the roof, measure 10 feet level from the anticipated flue path and then see how tall my flue will be, I'm just learned this morning that stoves have limits in the flue height. That might rule out the Hearthstone Mansfield, which is what got the wife on board. She saw that stove and loved its looks even if it wasn't a stove!
So I wonder how much can you cheat, say the Mansfield limit is a 30 foot flue, but to get 'legal' with code I need 34 feet? Do you have any thoughts on that?

 

[NickW]

If you have an outside air connection the only time you should have to worry about other appliances running is during startup and reloads.

Supporting the chimney and having safe clearances appears to be a challenge with the deck based on the sketch... Would it be possible to put the stove in the other front corner and run the pipe up where the deck doesn't interfere?

Uninsulated basement walls will rob most of the heat output until they are insulated.

 

[kborndale]

If your chimney is too tall and the draft is too strong then the remedy is a pipe damper ( or two).

 

[bholler]

If you have an outside air connection the only time you should have to worry about other appliances running is during startup and reloads.

Supporting the chimney and having safe clearances appears to be a challenge with the deck based on the sketch... Would it be possible to put the stove in the other front corner and run the pipe up where the deck doesn't interfere?

Uninsulated basement walls will rob most of the heat output until they are insulated.

You just run through the deck no big deal

 

[begreen]

The final height will be determined by the 10-3-2 rule.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

If you have an outside air connection the only time you should have to worry about other appliances running is during startup and reloads.

Supporting the chimney and having safe clearances appears to be a challenge with the deck based on the sketch... Would it be possible to put the stove in the other front corner and run the pipe up where the deck doesn't interfere?

Uninsulated basement walls will rob most of the heat output until they are insulated.

Nick, noted and thanks. For this upcoming winter (already here I'll just have to hope some heat makes it throughout the house. In the spring I'll insulate the basement. I'll study the other corner but there is a wall off bedroom in that corner. The corner I've chosen is open all the way to the other end of the basement.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

The final height will be determined by the 10-3-2 rule.

View attachment 317420

Begreen, appreciated. I think my flue will be well above the roof ridgeline and that's OK with me.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

You just run through the deck no big deal

Bholler, from what I've read the stove pipe, by the time it goes through the deck, will be cool enough to not only touch but hold your hand against; so agree, no worries about the deck.
Now the eave of the high roof.......too narrow to punch through. I think we'll just notch it and flash as best as we can. Another project for the whole roof in the near future is a standing seam metal roof (matte grey or matte silver).
Now here is the wife's latest demand. When the stove pipe is against (visually, I know they don't touch) the house section (currently red, will be painted anthracite) she wants black chimney pipe.
I didn't see any Class A Duravent double wall insulated stainless in black.

 

[NickW]

Nick, noted and thanks. For this upcoming winter (already here I'll just have to hope some heat makes it throughout the house. In the spring I'll insulate the basement. I'll study the other corner but there is a wall off bedroom in that corner. The corner I've chosen is open all the way to the other end of the basement.

Heed @bholler when he says going through the deck isn't a big deal. He's the expert here on chimney's

 

[MedicineMan4040]

If your chimney is too tall and the draft is too strong then the remedy is a pipe damper ( or two).

Good learning point for me. I didn't think draft could be too strong.
With out current Avalon insert, when running, the draft will pull the door closed.
The Avalon has a stainless flue liner attached to it and insulated from the Avelon all the way
to the chimney cap. It has worked very well heating out whole house for 3 winters, though the coldest
here last year was -8F. So no too cold for our elevation.

 

[begreen]

Bholler, from what I've read the stove pipe, by the time it goes through the deck, will be cool enough to not only touch but hold your hand against; so agree, no worries about the deck.

Best to call it chimney pipe. Stove pipe typically refers to the connector pipe from the stove to the thimble. Clearances will still need to be honored all the way up.

 

[Hoytman]

The final height will be determined by the 10-3-2 rule.

View attachment 317420

I like that 10-3-2 rule for that diagram …

… but with a higher pitched roof I’d plan to exceed those measurements. The last thing I would want to deal with is downdrafts from wind blowing over that roof peak.

Not saying that rule doesn’t already account for that, rather I like to be sure.

Some things don’t need explaining to the wife, you just do it for her own good and safety.

Of course, pick your battles (LOL), just tell her she gets no choice on this one because you’re saving her from herself. An outside chimney will never draft like an inside the home chimney all things being equal. Locate the stove and chimney centrally in the home while you’re at it.

You don’t have to thank me at all, but you might want to when she gets over it….and she will get over it.😂

(Your chosen spot is fine, but what I described is a better option for optimal draft and optimal, more even, heating dispersion throughout the upper two levels of the home and even with a basement install.)

 

[begreen]

I like that 10-3-2 rule for that diagram …

… but with a higher pitched roof I’d plan to exceed those measurements. The last thing I would want to deal with is downdrafts from wind blowing over that roof peak.

Not saying that rule doesn’t already account for that, rather I like to be sure.

It's usually not an issue unless the chimney is exiting a significantly lower roofline relative to the wind.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

I like that 10-3-2 rule for that diagram …

… but with a higher pitched roof I’d plan to exceed those measurements. The last thing I would want to deal with is downdrafts from wind blowing over that roof peak.

Not saying that rule doesn’t already account for that, rather I like to be sure.

Some things don’t need explaining to the wife, you just do it for her own good and safety.

Of course, pick your battles (LOL), just tell her she gets no choice on this one because you’re saving her from herself. An outside chimney will never draft like an inside the home chimney all things being equal. Locate the stove and chimney centrally in the home while you’re at it.

You don’t have to thank me at all, but you might want to when she gets over it….and she will get over it.😂

(Your chosen spot is fine, but what I described is a better option for optimal draft and optimal, more even, heating dispersion throughout the upper two levels of the home and even with a basement install.)

Hoytman, it's ironic to reach this stage in life where I can afford a woodstove/the good pipe and even have a pro come in and do the whole install; yet my battle is with the wife over the placement of the flue. Luckily/happily the daughter in law arrived last night and walked in on a HEATED argument between the wife and I. We don't close on this house for 17 days yet it's like we're already there and arguing over the couch placement haha! But the daughter in law said simply 'why don't you run the flue inside the house, isn't that supposed to be better?' Wow!
I pointed out the Vermont Aspen up here in my computer room in the current house. She has no problem with it at all. I told her the flue pipe could be black just like that running through the living room by the wall, that we could 'chase' it in whatever she wants. Above the living room is a bedroom (I hope the current owners move that hulking bed) and the flue pipe would most likely go up behind the knee wall.
As the wife and daughter in law headed out for the day the wife says 'go ahead put the damned thing in the house'!

Bottom line, there is hope to keep the majority of the flue inside! There would still be 10 feet'ish outside.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Heed @bholler when he says going through the deck isn't a big deal. He's the expert here on chimney's

Yep I'm new here but quickly figured Bholler is in the know.

 

[joop]

give a house warming gift, week at the spa?.then do it the way you want.but i thought that's what you wanted excuse lol

 

[Hoytman]

One thing I’d recommend if you do ultimately install it inside…

In the middle of the home in the middle of floor plan is best where you can walk 360 degrees around the stove. Why?
1. Heat distribution is far better.
(The next best location is center of home on an inside wall, then center of home on an outside wall.)

2. If you ever change stoves it’s plug and play with no worry of accommodating clearances.

If you do place stove against a wall be sure to build the hearth to exceed clearance measurements for this particular stove you’ve chosen in case you buy a bigger stove later in or a stove that has different clearances altogether, as many of them have differing minimum clearances.

Some stoves have close rear clearances and some do not. If you buy a stove with a close wall clearance and build the hearth out 16” in front of the stove…if you buy a stove later with a further away rear clearance then that messed up your front clearance which would now be too short. All this changes whether a stove pipe is straight up or offset too. A centrally located stove you don’t worry with all that and if placed in the right location the pipe will always be straight up and down regardless of stove choice later on. No rear hearth wall to build either.

Just some things to think about and consider before going all in on a decision.

My stove is on an inside wall. The hearth was built for one stove and is now too short for a different stove from front of stove to front of hearth where carpet is. To fix it to code would require ripping out my dad and grandpa’s handy work (which I don’t want to do) which would be an extensive and expensive rebuild. How would you like to tear all of that out each time you changed stoves? Not me. That’s why I said exceed minimum code measurements for your location or simply move stove to middle of the room and middle of the floor…where all you need there is something large enough to sit the stove on (make it a little bigger also).

 

[begreen]

I wouldn't push it too far with the missus. It takes a large house and a very cooperative mate to put a stove in the middle of the floor. It's quite uncommon. The risk of someone accidentally bumping into the stove or the stovepipe goes up a lot, especially if this is in a traffic area.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Hoytman, Bgreen, the wife's with the daughter in law getting chemo. So she sits there for hours. She texte me this-
And then I text back to her the clarance chart on the Green Mountain 60.
At least she's slowly getting on board for now only a woodstove but also inside. I must be living right!
But on the central placement in the basement I'm going with Bgreen and will prevent the waffle iron on my head and not push for too much more

Now correct me if wrong please. It looks to me that with a heat protector on the back of the stove one can get closer to the wall in a 'square' placement versus the corner placement.....attached.

For the hearth size. Well the whole basement is a concrete slab. We'd planned on tiling the whole floor end to end side to side, and then consider whereever the stove rep at the local Hearthstone dealer place it, the hearth.
I've been reading tons (as you all can tell) and really thought that tile on concrete was good----do I need to do something else?

Back to the attachments. It will make a difference when the stove pipe goes through the living room above and the bedroom above that.

One more question please. The stone seen on the wall in the attachment. I assume that can be laid up from the concrete slab as well, whether it is 'square' or corner placement.

 

[begreen]

The difference between 5" or 8" is not great. For layout, think about how the room will finally be arranged. A fire is a nice thing to look at. Often better than TV. A corner installation might be preferable for that reason.

Yes, it can start at the slab.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Thanking everyone for all the tips and insight. I'll keep studying here but no more questions until after
we get the ball rolling on the woodstove purchase and delivery.....

 

[MedicineMan4040]

OK guys I need you again. You'd think the actual battle is when the stove and all the flue parts start arriving and installation begins
but now the wife wants to know exactly what the flue will look like going up and through her living room corner and the bedroom above.
I'm just now (thanks to all the info at Hearth.com and the contributors) realizing that the double wall flue pipe in her living room and bedroom MUST have a chase......and she was on board for a black pipe visual.
So give me some ideas on the chase in the living room/how big will it actually be. Same for the bedroom. Maybe give me a link to ceiling box supports that will be required to 'chase' around and will they be between the basement and the living room, between the living room and the bedroom above, or both.
Attached, reminders of her living room above the basement where the stove will be, and the bedroom above, and the outside of the house.
I think I'm slowly winning this war. She's agreed to let me run the flue straight up and in the house; but I must pre-condition her as to what it will or could look like.

 

[Hoytman]

If that stove is going to be a basement install, then I would go with your original picture diagram.

If you can’t or won’t locate the stove in the middle of the floor plan in the floor above the basement because you’re afraid of someone bumping into it, and don’t want to look at a stove in the middle of the floor or even in a corner install, then why would want to see only a pipe going through an entire floor even with a corner install?

Myself, I’d place stove in basement and go out the basement wall and up the side of the house and through the deck.

If I have to look at a pipe anywhere in the room on the middle floor I would want a stove attached to it…it’ll just look better that way.

If the stove is NOT going in the basement then install the stove on the inside wall, go through the wall, then up the side of the house like your first picture. It will look lots better and no holes in the deck.

I’m not real clear of exactly where you’re wanting to install the stove. I wouldn’t want a pipe exposed through 3 floors.

There’s only so many places for a stove to go:
1. Pick the floor you want stove to go.
2. Pick middle of floor install, at end of short wall inside home, middle of inside wall, middle of outside wall, end of outside wall, or corner install.
3. Decide where the stove pipe terminates: up through ceiling through 1-2 floors, or through a wall thimble and up the side of the house.

(I’m going to have to read through this thread again to see if you preferred a 2nd floor install or a basement install.)

That’s my $.02 for what it’s worth.