1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)

Zero-clearance issue / decision

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by artfink, Feb 12, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    Hi all. I'm here because of an installation issue.

    I am wanting a zero clearance wood burning firebox. My issue is running of all the pipes depending on which brand I look at. Reason being, I am trying to install the unit in a solid slab daylight basement on an interior wall where I can't run any pipes horizontally.....they all have to go vertically through the same shaft that the removed chimney filled. So here was my first issue.

    I was looking at the FPX 36 Elite simply because it was the only one I had found in town. (salesman made it sound like it was the only one made, but that is obviously wrong) I can't run the cooling pipes properly because again I have to go vertically and to get to the attic (which is approved with the FPX 36) would exceed the 10' maximum length. The 13 inch chimney also made clearance issues a little tight. Option 1 out the window.

    Found this site and am now looking at the RSF Delta or Opel, the Napolean 6000, or the Quadrafire 7100. They all seem basically the same. They have to have a cool air intake, and they allow venting of hot air into other rooms (or into the central heating ductwork.)

    The main issue is getting the outside air for combustion, either with or without a blower. I have to go about 13 ft' vertically into the attic space.

    Does the Delta, opel, quadrafire, or napolean sound like they would work?
    Which unit would you recommend?
    Are there others I should be considering?

    THANKS FOR ANY ADVISE / HELP (and please let me know if I am completely off base)

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    I don't think any of the units are going to allow taking combustion or chimney air from the attic space. I have seen a similar picture in many manuls showing it is not allowed. But you can take it out the roof, or soffit some sort of vent cap.
  3. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    Ok, so I read the manuals a little closer. The RSF Delta, and Quadrafire specifically exclude attics. The Napolean NZ 6000, from what I have read, does not. So I have an email into them.

    Any suggestions to solve my problem of getting outside combustible air? My only option (without boring holes in a 4x16 beam holding up my house) is to go vertically, 2 stories to the attic space. It would be anonther 6 ft or so to get to the roof. But then I have to be a certain distance away from the the chimney so I would have to go sideways a bit.

    ARGH ! ! ! ! I REALLY want one of these fireboxes.

    Thanks
  4. TMonter

    TMonter Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,493
    Loc:
    Hayden, ID
    I don't think under any circumstances you want to pull air from an attic as I believe it violates the IBC which most cities in the US conform to. It also creates potentially unsafe conditions.
  5. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    Appreciate the feedback. So then is the FPX 36 Elite doing something they shouldn't? They allow the 388 CFm blower to be in the attic as well as the cooling pipes. (I just can't get the cooling pipes to the attic without exceeding the 10' max.
  6. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    OK then. I think this is the best option. RSF Opel or Delta. Reason being the air intake pipe can be as small as 4" if run less than 25'. I would run it 7-8 ft vertically into the floor joist between the daylight basement and top level, then horizonally down the floor joists through the 4x16 structural beam about 15' to the side of our house. Assuming the city allows a hole in the structural beam, does anyone see any issue with that? I might just do the 5" pipe to get the extra flow since I an very near to the 25' max.

    EDIT...
    Or looks like the Quadrofire 7100 would also work as there doesn't appear to be a max length for the chimnet cooling pipe or the outside air pipe.


    suggestions?

    Thanks
  7. Joe F

    Joe F New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    Loc:
    Long Valley, NJ
    I have an Opel 3. I love it works great. I'm still learning and researching how to burn with it. My house is one floor on a slab. The Opel is installed in an interior wall the intake was installed going up into the attic across the attic floor and out the sofet. I read the manual and it states that the line can't end in the attic space, but you can run through the attic. Also if you are installing in the basement why not run it along your ceiling joist and out the foundation like a dryer vent? If you have any question on the Opel 3 let me know i researched all the brands....or it seemed that way.....
  8. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    Thanks for the info. I guess my question would be.....what is the vertical rise and horizontal run of the intake pipe? ? ? Mine is a little different because I have to go 2 stories up to get to the attic.

    And to answer you ceiling joist question....It's a fully finished daylight basement, with a full bath and bedroom, wet bar, huge laundry room, and about 800 sq ft of open play/tv/living area that we actually use for our main evening family time. 1500 sq ft. basement. It already has drywalled heating duct protruding from the ceiling around the entire area but the location of the stove just doesn't work for running more along the ceiling. UP is my best bet, just a matter of making it work.
  9. Joe F

    Joe F New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    Loc:
    Long Valley, NJ
    It's approximately 20' it goes up 8' and then across 12'. Let me know if you need anything else.
  10. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    So, just got some pricing....sticker shock on the piping. I expected the chimney to be expensive, especially if I went to the Duravent-Duraplus which I think I want to. But what about the fresh air intake and the auxillary air intake (both going outside)? What flex pipe can be used and what have others paid for a 25ft length of 6" flex pipe.
  11. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    I will be running both the fresh air intake and the aux air to the outside through the roof. The manual says to use flex pipe....
    Can you use aluminum?

    Do you recommend aluminum? steal? Stainless steal? or rigid?
  12. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    We use a semi rigid aluminum right near the unit for heat resistance and then we go to a insulated flexible plastic duct from there. The plastic stuff we use is around $1 per ft, Deflect-O brand.

    Are you going with the Quad 7100?
  13. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    You just saved me about $900, thanks.

    Yes, the quad 7100 seems to be the one that will work out best. Had problems with the outside air on all the others.

    Now I just need to decide on a chimney. I'm leaning heavily towards the DuraPlus. I just am unsure about having a chimney cooled with a 25ft run of 4" pipe. Probably just me worrying but.....


    Now...installation. I am VERY handy. Would you contemplate doing an install yourself, or does that void all warranties? I don't recall what the manual said.
  14. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    It is recommended to have a Pro install it but not required. You will get better support from a dealer if they install it since they can generally rule out an install issue when looking for problems.

    The 7100 has 3 air hookups. Chimney Air (For the SL300 pipe Only), Combustion Air, and AUX Air. The first two are required and the third is optional. You should read up about the AUX air and decide if you want to use it or not. It basically dumps air into the convection chamber of the unit but it does not have any sort of damper or seal on it. If it is connected to outside air when it is very cold outside and the fireplace is not in use you will get a nasty draft. The AUX air feature is targeted at 24/7 burners. We never hook it up here because most of our customers are casual burners.

    If you have any other questions about the 7100 I know it inside and out.
  15. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    I guess I didn't read about the aux air not having a damper or shutoff. Doesn't get too cold here, maybe a couple weeks below freezing. But I still wouldn't want drafts. Is there any way to modify the aux air so it has a damper?

    How much efficiency or dispersement of hot air do you lose by not having the positive pressure created by the aux pipe bringing in the outside air.
  16. builderbob

    builderbob New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    290
    Loc:
    Oregon
    Couple of other woodburning units you might look at:

    Lennox Montecito Estate (or clone Security Bis Tradition)
    or their smaller brothers Lennox Montecito(or clone Bis Tradition CE).

    www.lennoxhearthproducts.com
    ( from there you can link to Security Chimney Co to see their clone fireplaces as well)


    And the Kozyheat Z42
    www.kozyheat.com
  17. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    You could put an in-line electronic damper on the AUX air I supposed.

    FYI the other 6" pipe which is the Combustion air DOES have a gasketed damper that seals up at the unit.

    Are you going to burn 24/7 and use this thing to heat the house?
  18. artfink

    artfink Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Pacific Northwest
    Hey JTP....

    Page 17 of the current manual implies that there is a lever for the auxillary air. You can choose to use room air (from the room the wood stove is in) or use the auxillary air (which can be outside air or air from another room). But then it mentions the lock that needs to be removed.

    So here is my understanding. The stove comes with the level on room air, and locked. If you remove the lock, then you can choose room air or auxillary air just by moving the level back and forth. So I could move it to auxiallary air, burn my fire, and the next day switch it back to room air to prevent drafts? Correct or am I missing something?

    And I think I would prefer to use outside air when I do burn a fire for the positive pressure. But I will NOT be a 24/7 burner. Probably more like a couple a nights a week.
  19. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    First of all the lever is not an air tight seal. Now, I have not ripped apart any of the newest 7100FP units but based on what I have seen in the brochure and in 7100 units i have taken apart this is what is going on...

    The lever on the front slides a plate back and forth over a hole. When the hole is open it lets more room air into the convection chamber which will get blown out the top by the fans. If you close that hole up by sliding the lever it lets less room air into the chamber and will use more AUX air. If you have the AUX air plated over and you switch it to AUX air still blows out of the convection chamber, the whole cavity underneath is wide open so all I can see this hole with the slider on it doing it making it MORE or LESS room air for CONVECTION. Unless they made some drastic changes in the newest units? OK anyway... so you do hook AUX air up to the outside and you are not using the fireplace cold air will just flow into the convection chamber and then out the top and bottom of the unit. If the slider is set to room air it wont do any good because there is still a wide open path up and out the top of the convection chamber.

    I have been wrong on things like this before because I am always a year or two behind from working on old units in the field.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page