15,000$ minimum for a u/peninsula shape wood fireplace. Am I missing something!?

[Snoochers]

I want a u/peninsula shape fireplace, similar to:

(broken link removed to http://www.spartherm-america.com/products/arte-u-90h/)

Fireplaces - Cheminée / Kamin / Ofen

www.ruegg-cheminee.com

The problem is there doesn't seem to be such a wood fireplace made in North America and the European versions that are certified in North America cost 13,000$+! In Canada, anyway. This is without installation and chimney or anything of course. Some sell for about 5000-8000$ in Europe less but are not certified in North America.

Am I screwed here? My wife won't let me piss 15,000$ on a wood fireplace so we would need to get gas, which I find depressing. Here are some options I can think of:

• A brilliant mind on this forum identifies a unit I can buy that is cheaper and certified in North America
• Can I import and have installed a unit that is NOT certified in North America (Canada for what is is worth)?
• Could I get a custom unit made for cheaper? It wouldn't even need to be terribly efficient.
• Other ideas?

 

[Ludlow]

If you are firm on the idea of that then gas is your only way most likely. Peninsula and two sided wood fireplaces dont work worth a darn.

 

[Snoochers]

If you are firm on the idea of that then gas is your only way most likely. Peninsula and two sided wood fireplaces dont work worth a darn.

what do you mean they’re not worth a damn? This would not be used as a significant source of heat for my home, so if it is not very efficient, I can live with that. But beyond that, the units I am looking at have over 80% efficiency. Is that not acceptable? And they seem to meet high standards of emissions and all that. I’d be grateful if you could clarify!

 

[Ludlow]

Yes and the units you are looking at cost $13000. The less costly units dont exist because they dont work worth a darn.

 

[Snoochers]

Yes and the units you are looking at cost $13000. The less costly units dont exist because they dont work worth a darn.

yes but these units cost HALF this in other countries, and the quality is the same. So clearly it is possible for these fireplaces to exist for cheaper!

 

[Mech e]

In the US anyway, I would definitely not install a unit that does not have a certification accepted by US insurance companies. The reason they cost more is the companies had to spend more money with UL and CSA to get them certified in North America. Being they deemed it necessary to do this should answer your question about whether you should by an uncertified fireplace.

Same with a custom built. It would not be certified, and if you did get it certified it would cost more than building it. Additionally, the engineering and design costs would easily exceed the cost of the European units.

If you have money to burn, so to speak, I would get a certified European unit and double the unit price for installed cost.

Otherwise, going gas seems like the best alternative for this type of install.

 

[Snoochers]

In the US anyway, I would definitely not install a unit that does not have a certification accepted by US insurance companies. The reason they cost more is the companies had to spend more money with UL and CSA to get them certified in North America. Being they deemed it necessary to do this should answer your question about whether you should by an uncertified fireplace.

Same with a custom built. It would not be certified, and if you did get it certified it would cost more than building it. Additionally, the engineering and design costs would easily exceed the cost of the European units.

If you have money to burn, so to speak, I would get a certified European unit and double the unit price for installed cost.

Otherwise, going gas seems like the best alternative for this type of install.

Thank you for this. Perhaps it is different in Canada, or maybe times have changed, but I just called my insurance company and they said they do not even ASK if you have a fireplace anymore. It is completely irrelevant and has no impact on premiums. I thought it did matter, but seems like insurance wise this would not be a problem.

So it seems to come down to 1. can I import the unit and 2. can it be installed without being certified? I suspect the answer to at least one of these is NO, but I might be wrong. I was really hoping someone on here would point out an American-made fireplace that I am overlooking, but seems like these are less common now.

 

[SpaceBus]

It's more than your insurance caring about having the fireplace in the home, it's more about if they will cover your house if a chimney fire started by an unlisted appliance.

 

[Snoochers]

It's more than your insurance caring about having the fireplace in the home, it's more about if they will cover your house if a chimney fire started by an unlisted appliance.

This is a legitimate point, but if it is WETT certified/installed perhaps that issue is addressed. These are good points that I will think about! Maybe I can find a certified one if I'm lucky. Or, worst case, gas.

Are people on this forum generally pro gas? Or is it considered bad for some reason.

 

[ManitobaSky]

I’m not sure what part of Canada you are in but here in Manitoba any insurance companies I checked with add a premium for solid fuel that includes woo pellet, and with the company I’m with any new install must be WETT certified. Like SpaceBus said the question that needs asked is will they cover your house for fire causes by the fireplace, and if they say yes get it in writing.

 

[Snoochers]

Thanks for this. Just called 3 companies and they said they don't even ask anymore about wood fireplaces or care. but certainly if the house burned down they'd wonder how it happened! So yes, I would certainly need my arse covered.

How does this work with custom fireplaces then? Those would not be certified usually right?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for this. Just called 3 companies and they said they don't even ask anymore about wood fireplaces or care. but certainly if the house burned down they'd wonder how it happened! So yes, I would certainly need my arse covered.

How does this work with custom fireplaces then? Those would not be certified usually right?

Site built fireplaces need to be built to all applicable building codes and inspected. But I can gaurantee to site build what you want out of masonry the cost will greatly exceed that $15000. And it will probably spill smoke as well.

 

[SpaceBus]

What about the Duet two sided high efficiency fireplace? https://supremem.com/duet.php

This is allegedly a decent heater and it does look nice. If I wanted a fireplace instead of a free standing stove the Duet would be my pick. I think it is also available as a free standing stove which is a nice option if you wanted to spend several thousand less.

 

[Snoochers]

What about the Duet two sided high efficiency fireplace? https://supremem.com/duet.php

This is allegedly a decent heater and it does look nice. If I wanted a fireplace instead of a free standing stove the Duet would be my pick. I think it is also available as a free standing stove which is a nice option if you wanted to spend several thousand less.

Thanks for this. It is indeed quite nice, and I've seen many similar models that are beautiful. Many of them are also made in Canada and zero-clearance, which is nice. The problem is that these are not the peninsula type I'm interested in. I'm working on a layout that likely requires the fireplace to be on the edge between three rooms, so having a U shape would be quite good.

 

[SpaceBus]

Thanks for this. It is indeed quite nice, and I've seen many similar models that are beautiful. Many of them are also made in Canada and zero-clearance, which is nice. The problem is that these are not the peninsula type I'm interested in. I'm working on a layout that likely requires the fireplace to be on the edge between three rooms, so having a U shape would be quite good.

You could do that with the Duet, instead of glass on three sides, it's two. Not much of a difference otherwise. Maybe post a photo of your layout

 

[Snoochers]

You could do that with the Duet, instead of glass on three sides, it's two. Not much of a difference otherwise. Maybe post a photo of your layout

Imagine a feature wall between the living room and the dining room, and perpendicular to the feature wall in the kitchen. So with the fireplace you’re suggesting, the kitchen would not see the fireplace at all. An entire side will be blocked off.

 

[SpaceBus]

Imagine a feature wall between the living room and the dining room, and perpendicular to the feature wall in the kitchen. So with the fireplace you’re suggesting, the kitchen would not see the fireplace at all. An entire side will be blocked off.

Then you are going to spend $15k+ install on a certified 3 sided unit or half that on an unlisted unit (some installers might not want to deal with an unlisted unit from a liability perspective). A gas three sided unit might have a chance to actually heat the house and definitely wouldn't make the house colder like a non-high efficiency unit. The Duet would be the most efficient wood unit and would have the benefit of being made in North America.

 

[Snoochers]

Then you are going to spend $15k+ install on a certified 3 sided unit or half that on an unlisted unit (some installers might not want to deal with an unlisted unit from a liability perspective). A gas three sided unit might have a chance to actually heat the house and definitely wouldn't make the house colder like a non-high efficiency unit. The Duet would be the most efficient wood unit and would have the benefit of being made in North America.

yes that is the whole point of my post I suppose. That these units are very popular in Europe and are half the cost. I hoped something like that existed on this side of the sea

 

[byQ]

If it is a fireplace and as stated it is around 80% efficient than it is a masonry heater. Masonry heaters are certified in North America if built properly. It is from Switzerland, I'm guessing it is built properly. There are a bunch of masonry heater builders in Eastern Canada. They've all heard of 2 sides with glass but I don't know about 3 sides with glass.
I built a masonry heater. How thick are the 3 non-door sides of the firebox? Let's see, 5" of fire brick + 1/4" air/cardboard gap + 6" of granite/concrete = 11+" thick.

Here is a list of masons.
https://www.mha-net.org/member-directory/

 

[Snoochers]

If it is a fireplace and as stated it is around 80% efficient than it is a masonry heater. Masonry heaters are certified in North America if built properly. It is from Switzerland, I'm guessing it is built properly. There are a bunch of masonry heater builders in Eastern Canada. They've all heard of 2 sides with glass but I don't know about 3 sides with glass.
I built a masonry heater. How thick are the 3 non-door sides of the firebox? Let's see, 5" of fire brick + 1/4" air/cardboard gap + 6" of granite/concrete = 11+" thick.

Here is a list of masons.
https://www.mha-net.org/member-directory/

The units looks like this and are not made of masonry:

https://kms.wonderlists.com/Images/848x760xi/180131023554010~ARTE-U-90-3.jpg

Could it really count as a masonry unit?

 

[bholler]

If it is a fireplace and as stated it is around 80% efficient than it is a masonry heater. Masonry heaters are certified in North America if built properly. It is from Switzerland, I'm guessing it is built properly. There are a bunch of masonry heater builders in Eastern Canada. They've all heard of 2 sides with glass but I don't know about 3 sides with glass.
I built a masonry heater. How thick are the 3 non-door sides of the firebox? Let's see, 5" of fire brick + 1/4" air/cardboard gap + 6" of granite/concrete = 11+" thick.

Here is a list of masons.
https://www.mha-net.org/member-directory/

This has nothing to do with masonry heaters

 

[begreen]

This came up a year or two ago. Superior makes one.
(broken link removed)

And there is the Rais Visio 3-1

RAIS Visio 3:1

With extra depth and glass on three sides, the distinctive yet discreet insert RAIS Visio 3:1 allows you to enjoy the beautiful fire in two rooms at the same time. The design is elegantly underplayed and enhance the experience of the flickering flames. Open the door easily by pushing it upwards...

www.rais.com

 

[Snoochers]

This came up a year or two ago. Superior makes one.
(broken link removed)

And there is the Rais Visio 3-1

RAIS Visio 3:1

With extra depth and glass on three sides, the distinctive yet discreet insert RAIS Visio 3:1 allows you to enjoy the beautiful fire in two rooms at the same time. The design is elegantly underplayed and enhance the experience of the flickering flames. Open the door easily by pushing it upwards...

www.rais.com

Thank you begree! Unfortunately the Superior is discontinued, but I could perhaps get my hands on one? Is Superior considered a good brand? Can't imagine that unit is very efficient, but who knows.

The RAIS is from Denmark, which I suppose is the same problem as all the other European ones: they're generally not certified for use in North America. Unless these ones are???

 

[SpaceBus]

This came up a year or two ago. Superior makes one.
(broken link removed)

And there is the Rais Visio 3-1

RAIS Visio 3:1

With extra depth and glass on three sides, the distinctive yet discreet insert RAIS Visio 3:1 allows you to enjoy the beautiful fire in two rooms at the same time. The design is elegantly underplayed and enhance the experience of the flickering flames. Open the door easily by pushing it upwards...

www.rais.com

I don't know if I'm missing something, but the stated firebox size for the Rais unit is 0.85 Cuft after converting from metric. That's a touch smaller than my Morso and seems impossible for a fireplace that size.

 

[begreen]

The RAIS is from Denmark, which I suppose is the same problem as all the other European ones: they're generally not certified for use in North America. Unless these ones are???

Contact Rais Canada and see what they say. Otherwise, maybe rethink the design and put one of their stoves on the end of the peninsula?



As you are noting, peninsula wood-burning fireplaces are not in high demand. Gas units are easier to locate.