1st Burn In BK Princess Insert Questions - Newbie

[rook_ki]

I had 2 Princess insert installed a month ago. I'm in central MA and it's getting into the mid 30 at nite. I did my 1st burn 3 days ago, let the fire go out, and start the 2nd burn again this evening. Both times on both inserts, I had smoke coming out fromthe side of the stove. It seems to stop once the the stoves heat up after about 30 minutes. Is this normal?

I got the cat thermometer in the active zone after about an hour, close the bypass, and turn the stat and fan down to about 3 dots from low. After about 2 hours, the cat is in the inactive zone. Is it suppose to do this? If not, how do I keep it in the active and still achieve low and slow burn?

Thank you.

 

[weatherguy]

Sounds like the smoke is the paint burning. You should be able to keep it in the active zone for a lot longer. I loaded mine up at 10 and it will still be active when I get up tomorrow. I keep mine usually at one dot but since its milder I have it at 2 dots.
Couple questions:
How seasoned is your wood?
How full did you load the stove?

 

[rook_ki]

I don't think the smoke is from the paint. I'mpretty sure it's the smoke from the newspaper & kindling base on the smell.

I do not know how seasoned. Stop by Harbor Freight today to pick up a moisture meter but they didn't have any in stock. Will stop by HD tomorrow.

I loaded it less than half full. 3 regular size logs.

How much wood can you load in this stove?

Should I have the bypass open (up) whenever the cat is inactive?

 

[jeff_t]

Were they installed with full liners? Did you buy 'seasoned'wood? Good draft and dry wood musts for these stoves.

Did you have unburned wood left when the cat dropped off? Three splits isn't very much, and when the load burns down, the cat is going to drop out of the active range. Don't be afraid to fill it up. Heat output is controlled by the thermostat, and they perform best with a full load.

Not really sure about the smoke. Are the surrounds installed? Check the liner connections.

 

[rook_ki]

Yes, a full liner was installed. It was done professionally so I have to assume it was done correctly. (Gulp)

The wood guy claim it was seasoned for a full year. I don't have a moisture meter to test, yet. Need to stop by HD on the way home from work.

Yes I have unburned wood left when the cat dropped off

When you say "full load", how full are we talking about? All the way to top? When loading, what is the best way to load? I mean, do I load it NS for the 1st layer abnd EW for the next or can I just throw them in in one direction?

Yes surrounds are installed.

 

[jeff_t]

I generally don't 'fill' it all the way unless the weather is cold. I look for 12or 24 hour cycles, just because it is easier. For really cold weather, I stuff every corner and get as much in it as I can.

'Seasoned' means different things to different people. That probably means it was cut for a year in logs or rounds, then split when you ordered it. Wood doesn't really start to dry until it is split. Get yourself a moisture meter.

Did you have visible smoke or an odor?

 

[rook_ki]

I had both visible smoke and odor. I'm quite sure the odor is from the newspaper and kindling I was using and not the paint.

 

[HotCoals]

When you check mc with the meter (when you get one) you should do it on a fresh split...just re split a piece.

 

[jeff_t]

I had both visible smoke and odor. I'm quite sure the odor is from the newspaper and kindling I was using and not the paint.

Was it coming from behind the surround? Was this both or just one?

 

[Robert C.]

I had both visible smoke and odor. I'm quite sure the odor is from the newspaper and kindling I was using and not the paint.

I also think it's still the paint curing. But you never know. You may just have a hole in your stove. If this continues, I would get the installer back into your house to take a look at it.

 

[HotCoals]

A co detector is not a bad thing thing to have.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, you will fill it to the top, every last space stuffed. All of the logs stacked north south with minimal air space. Imagine a cigar burn.

For smoke to leak from this stove something has to be very wrong. The air tract is sealed up. All incoming air goes through the thermostat and all outgoing smoke through the flue collar. The door gasket on front is the only other place for anything to leak.

It's probably paint burning. These cat stoves are odd in that the actual firebox doesn't get really hot so the paint can take a long time to burn off. The top plate does get hot and that paint will go away early on. Paint and wood smoke can both be blue or white. If it is easy to take off the surround I would do that and use a flashlight to try and find the source.

 

[rook_ki]

Jeff, It could have come from behind the shroud but I don't think it was. If it was from behind the shroud, I figure it would come through the spacing between the wall and the shroud. I only saw smoke from the side in front of the shroud. Happen on both insert.

Robert, I've sent an email to the installer last night but have not heard back.

HC, I do have a CO detector.

HB, the color of the smoke was white

Question for all of the BK owners, do you remember your 1st burning giving off white smoke outside of the stove? I'm starting to think maybe it is the paint curing. As I said in my original post, after about 1/2 hr, the smoke stopped

 

[Badger]

Jeff, It could have come from behind the shroud but I don't think it was. If it was from behind the shroud, I figure it would come through the spacing between the wall and the shroud. I only saw smoke from the side in front of the shroud. Happen on both insert.

Robert, I've sent an email to the installer last night but have not heard back.

HC, I do have a CO detector.

HB, the color of the smoke was white

Question for all of the BK owners, do you remember your 1st burning giving off white smoke outside of the stove? I'm starting to think maybe it is the paint curing. As I said in my original post, after about 1/2 hr, the smoke stopped

I have a Princess freestanding stove and I've seen smoke come off the side after I painted the stove (I purchased it used), and while I was starting the fire. After some trial and error I determined that I wasn't starting the fire fast enough and smoke was actually coming out of the air inlets. It sort of looked like a mist on the water floating across my basement floor.

I recommend the following.
1. supercedars - they seem to throw enough heat quick enough to jump start the draft
2. roll or cardboard or crumpled up newspaper directly below the bypass door on top of the large splits and do a top down fire. You need to use kindling and small splits, but the idea here is to get the flue warm fast. Look at old posts for more info on how to set one up properly and experiment a little.

Also, it is my belief that I had inadequate draft that caused this. I've been working on fixing up my flue and I'm hoping I don't have any issues this winter.

Either way be cautious. If you don't feel comfortable running another fire without having a pro look at it wait. There is still plenty of burning season ahead. Don't try to save $300 in heating bills to risk your well being.

At a bare minimum take some time and review the installation yourself. Look for gaps where there should be gaps or restrictions where their shouldn't be restrictions. Don't necessarily trust the stove shop either. I had a chimney sweep out last week and he informed me that my stove shop didn't install my flue to code.

 

[Bster13]

No smoke from my BK insert, just paint smell the first few times. I bet the flue is not attached properly for there to be smoke... I'd load it all the way up and see if u only get a few hours with unburnt wood. If u do, perhaps the liner is not attached correctly and u have poor draft?

 

[rdust]

How much wood can you load in this stove?

As much as you can, here is a picture of my Princess loaded up.

As for the smoke if it's not paint burning off it could be a draft related issue, is there a lot of smoke building up inside the stove when this happens or is all the smoke in the stove being pulled up the chimney?

 

[Hogwildz]

If the smoke was coming out during a cold start, you prolly had a reverse draft in the liner. That happens occasionally.
Once the liner starts to heat up some, the draft will correct and it will stop smoking.

 

[Bster13]

Ya know I've never loaded North/South. I feel like I can fit longer splits in east/west and hypothetically a longer burn time, right? (But at the risk of wood hitting the glass)

As much as you can, here is a picture of my Princess loaded up.

As for the smoke if it's not paint burning off it could be a draft related issue, is there a lot of smoke building up inside the stove when this happens or is all the smoke in the stove being pulled up the chimney?

 

[rdust]

Ya know I've never loaded North/South. I feel like I can fit longer splits in east/west and hypothetically a longer burn time, right? (But at the risk of wood hitting the glass)

The majority of the BK crowd here only burns them n/s from what I can see. I feel I get a better burn that way. More wood equals longer burn times and I can pack the stove better n/s.

 

[Bster13]

I could see being able to pack it better because u don't have to reach to the back of the stove, but don't u have to make your splits shorter?

 

[rdust]

I could see being able to pack it better because u don't have to reach to the back of the stove, but don't u have to make your splits shorter?

Yes they have to be cut shorter. I'm not sure I see how that matters though. A full stove is a full stove no matter if it's loaded e/w or n/s, I find it easier to pack a hot stove full loading it n/s. I tried loading a hot stove e/w one time and decided I'd never do it again.

 

[Highbeam]

The princess firebox is nearly square, it is a couple inches wider than deep. When trying to fill any firebox I believe it is silly to load sideways. Stuff rolls out, you can't see that you've filled every gap, and I really do believe that with the cigar burn we're getting on these BKs the air needs to come in the ends as it does with a N/S loading.

 

[rook_ki]

I do not have the smoke problem anymore since both stove are runing 24/7 now. Still not sure wether is was the paint burning or the reverse draft as HG suggested.

I didn't have time to stop by HD on the way home from work. Had to borrow a moisture meter from a friend in town. Most of the logs I loaded last nite were between 13-15%. The logs I load this morning were between 17-20%. Should the humidity at different time of the day effect the reading? This lead me to question the accuracy of the meter I was was using. It's an Apollo mini moisture meter. I noticed the logs was make the sizzling sound some of the log ends were a little damp. One of even had white foam come out. Is this normal for logs with < 20% moisture content?

After getting a crash course over the phone from WG, I think I almost got this down. Rake the coals, turn up the stat, load the stove, leave the door open, roaring fire, close door, and enjoy a few cold ones. Question, when reloading and the cat is already in the active zone, do I still need to open the bypass?

I think the draft of the front stove is not as good as the back stove. On the back one, I can dial the stat down to the 1st dot and the cat thermometer would stay pretty much in the same position after 2 hours. On the front, it has to be the 3rd dot for the cat thermometer to stay constant. If I dial it down to the 1st dot, the cat thermometer drop going down quite a bit (still in the active zone) after a couple of hours. Am I correct with this assessment? I know the front chimney had a funky bend which gave the installing contractor all sort of headache.

 

[rdust]

Is this normal for logs with < 20% moisture content?

No, it sounds like you checked the moisture content on the outside not the inside. Split the wood open and check the content on a fresh face. Enough moisture to foam up I'd say you're pushing the 30% range.

 

[weatherguy]

Make sure to open the bypass every time you open the stove door. Sounds like one of the stoves has a better draft, makes sense since they're not identical set ups, no big deal, you'll just have to learn the intricacies of each one.
Sounds like your wood is not dry enough, or at least the wood that sizzled, you might have some maple or ash in your pile you can burn but I would put the oak aside for next year.