25-EP Obnoxious Room Fan Noise

[BoerBoelAmari]

I have a 1 year old Summers Heat 25-EP and for the last month the room air fan has been giving this obnoxious noise that I really cannot put a finger on. The noise comes and goes and increases in frequency as the speed of the fan is turned up. I didn't notice this happening last year and the stove was completely cleared before being put into service this year. The tech at England seems to think that it is a bearing issue in the fan motor. It seems too premature for something to have gone wrong so early. Especially since the stove has really only been used for 9 months total. Most of the time the fan is set to 3 or 4. England has extended an offer of cost on the part, which although is better that full price, still pisses me off because of the newness of the stove and its proximity to the warranty date.

Any thoughts?

 

[silverfox103]

I don't know how long you have had it, but if it is beyond the warranty.........it's not warranted, they owe you nothing. That's how you bought it. If there is a motor shop near you, they probably can put a new bearing in it or be happy with the part at cost.

Tom C.

 

[BoerBoelAmari]

I fully accept that the part is outside of the warranty and as I stated I am happy that they extended the offer of the part at cost. However, there are things that outstanding companies do for their customers that are beyond the scope of the documentation that they provide with each of their products. If they dont want to be considered exceptional, that is their business. But I can tell you that everything up until this point with them has been great. But now, when friends ask me about my stove, I am going to have to tell them that I had to buy a new blower after 1 year and the best the company was willing to do for me was offer another one at cost. Not that this is a bad thing, but its the truth and something that might deter someone from purchasing one of their products again.

A critical component of the stove should not be failing after 1 year of use. Should I expect to be replacing this part every year?

 

[MCPO]

I fully except that the part is outside of the warranty and as I stated I am happy that they extended the offer of the part at cost. However, there are things that outstanding companies do for their customers that are beyond the scope of the documentation that they provide with each of their products. If they dont want to be considered exceptional, that is their business. But I can tell you that everything up until this point with them has been great. But now, when friends ask me about my stove, I am going to have to tell them that I had to buy a new blower after 1 year and the best the company was willing to do for me was offer another one at cost. Not that this is a bad thing, but its the truth and something that might deter someone from purchasing one of their products again.

A critical component of the stove should not be failing after 1 year of use. Should I expect to be replacing this part every year?

Maybe. It`s a crapshoot sometimes with lots of moving parts in a hot environment. After the warranty runs out anything can happen.
Englander service is in fact exceptional but maybe not so with free parts after the warranty ends. Be happy they at least talked to you. Harman won`t.

 

[BoerBoelAmari]

I am happy they talked to me. Especially after being on hold for an hour and 15 minutes.

The point of this thread is not to trash Englander. I just want to know what I can look for to see if it is actually the blower that is the issue, without having to dole out 100 bucks on a new one. Also, if I am going to have to do that, am I able to upgrade for a better blower? Maybe something a little quieter and more efficient?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I am happy they talked to me. Especially after being on hold for an hour and 15 minutes.

The point of this thread is not to trash Englander. I just want to know what I can look for to see if it is actually the blower that is the issue, without having to dole out 100 bucks on a new one. Also, if I am going to have to do that, am I able to upgrade for a better blower? Maybe something a little quieter and more efficient?

Does that motor have oil ports and if so was it oiled with the motor makers recommended oil in the right amount and according to the recommended frequency.

A lot of convection blower motors require a non detergent 20 weight oil every six months. This is usually on the motor maker's plate on the motor.

 

[slvrblkk]

Smokey...no oil ports on these blowers, they're sealed bearings. I do, however, put 20w on the bearings and they do seep into the bearings after a bit. My convection blower went early too but was still under warranty.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You can run the blower outside of the stove while doing that move the blower around and see if a certain positions cause more noise than others, it is possible that:

1: You didn't get all of the crud off of the squirrel cage causing air turbulence which can make noise.
2: In cleaning the crud out you bent a fin causing air turbulence which can make noise.
3: There is stuff on the shaft that is rubbing
4: That the squirrel cage is now out of balance this can cause noise a number of ways.
5: The motor case has worked loose and the crimps need touch up.
6: That the blots holding the blower to the stove are not equally tight or that the gasket has been destroyed and can no longer dampen a lot of what noise has been there since the begining.
7: That the blower is no longer in the exact same alignment as it used to be.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Smokey...no oil ports on these blowers, they're sealed bearings. I do, however, put 20w on the bearings and they do seep into the bearings after a bit. My convection blower went early too but was still under warranty.

Which was why I asked and even the stove maker has been known to change what they use over time. Motors in a hot environment always have problems.

Which leads to the following the cooling fan on that motor also needs cleaning and if plugged can lead to the blower overheating and stopping (thermal protected they are at about 140 IIRC ) and/or noise.

 

[slvrblkk]

Which was why I asked and even the stove maker has been known to change what they use over time. Motors in a hot environment always have problems.

Which leads to the following the cooling fan on that motor also needs cleaning and if plugged can lead to the blower overheating and stopping (thermal protected they are at about 140 IIRC ) and/or noise.

I actually put up a foil shield behind mine to keep the heat off the motor. It is night and day with and without that shield.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What deadened my convection blower was going to a different gasket, and a lower rpm higher cfm blower.

But motors in hot areas need their cooling system in top shape and since the metal does expand they can get out of alignment because the bearing holders shift as a result.

It is also critical that the openings in the stoves shell be kept clean since all air that gets heated and that does the motor cooling comes through them.

I've watched combustion blowers thermal off and back on, it leads to poor pellet feeding and eventual vacuum or out of fuel errors.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

BoerBoelAmari, sorry for the blather, but there are so many possibilities here that a good listing of possibilities is needed.

I've had my share of noisy motors on blowers and they can get on your nerves.

 

[BoerBoelAmari]

Where do you guys get this 20w oil?

 

[urkiddin]

Heck I had the bearing go bad in a Burnham boiler a few years back after about 3 months. When I talked to the company they told me I had to take it up with the burner manufacturer, it was their problem. I guess if you by a new car and the tranny goes in a couple months your suppose to go to the tranny manufacturer.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Where do you guys get this 20w oil?

Blue and white can of 3 in 1 oil is one Anderol makes a high temperature synthetic turbine oil that some motor makers call for.

If you can get to a motor repair shop they can replace the bearings.

You also can find just the replacement motors and salvage the blower wheel and shell.

 

[slvrblkk]

http://www.amazon.com/3-IN-ONE-1004...024496&sr=8-3&keywords=20w+electric+motor+oil

 

[ChandlerR]

I just want to chime in. As far as I know there are only a few manufacturers of blower fans used by American stove manufacturers. I have two Fasco motors on mine and I'm guessing you have the same or similar ones in yours. Englander does not manufacture the fans and unfortunately a bad one gets by. They do stand by their product and I guess they have to draw a line somewhere as far as a free replacement. My fans are original 2008 ones that still work fine (for now. Watch, tonight one of them will start squealing!) I would think that odds are the replacement fan will last longer than the one you have now. There are a LOT of ESW owners on this forum and if the blowers were failing every year, I think we would be hearing about it daily

 

[BoerBoelAmari]

The part number that Englander gave me was Dayton part number. Those are no longer produced. I went on one of the sites and found the Fasco replacement number.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Sometimes you can also get replacements at the surplus center, it is hit or miss at any point in time but if you want to build a spare parts drawer periodic visits will do just nicely. Auger motors and blowers are frequently available for very reasonable prices.

 

[bill3rail]

The part number that Englander gave me was Dayton part number. Those are no longer produced. I went on one of the sites and found the Fasco replacement number.

What is England's P/N, and what is the replacement Fasco P/N?
(broken link removed)should show the replacement P/N for the Dayton P/N.

I did see the convection motor for my stove was an obsolete Dayton/Grainger number, but there is definitely a replacement number on grainger.com.

Bill

 

[BoerBoelAmari]

Its like 4C442 I believe.

 

[BoerBoelAmari]

Anyone have to replace one of these in this stove? What was needed to get to the bolts on the far backside of the stove? I ordered a new blower from Englander, at 80 bucks it was better than having to fuss around with something different. Wish I could have upgraded the CFM. This stove is going to be gone in a year or so anyhow so its not a big deal.