25-EP

[Bob Sorjanen]

Hi all
I am going to buy a new stove this summer to finally replace my St. Croix Lancaster. Been looking at the Englander 25-ep to replace it with but the BTU's baffle me. It states in the manual it is up to 25,100 btu's. My Lancaster is rated at 38,000 BTU's and struggles in the very cold and windy times in the winter. So it seems as though this 25-ep isn't an upgrade to it. Heating about 1100sf.
Just looking for your thoughts on this one.
thanks
Bob

 

[mchasal]

I don't specifically know about St. Croix, but some manufacturers rate their stoves in BTU input. Englander rates their's with the BTU output. So basically Englander tells you how much heat is coming out of the stove (which accounts for the efficiency of the stove) where Harman tells you how many BTUs worth of pellets it's consuming, ignoring the efficiency of the stove.

As an example, the 25-EP's max feed rate is 3.9#/hr. Figuring 8000 BTU/# of pellets, that gives you about 31000 BTUs input for that stove.

So just make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

 

[slvrblkk]

My stove kept up well this year (had it for 2.5 years now) except on the coldest and windy days, that's where it struggled a bit. Usually though it cooks us pretty good though. I have a 2000 sq.ft. colonial that's 7 years old. We heat the 1st floor living room/kitchen and the heat goes upstairs to the 4 bedrooms. I think one thing that gets the most energy out of the pellets is the tube heat exchanger. This definitely heats better than my old pdvc and that was a pretty good heater too.

 

[Bob Sorjanen]

My stove kept up well this year (had it for 2.5 years now) except on the coldest and windy days, that's where it struggled a bit. Usually though it cooks us pretty good though. I have a 2000 sq.ft. colonial that's 7 years old. We heat the 1st floor living room/kitchen and the heat goes upstairs to the 4 bedrooms. I think one thing that gets the most energy out of the pellets is the tube heat exchanger. This definitely heats better than my old pdvc and that was a pretty good heater too.

Ok so I have about half the square footage that you have so hopefully it should do the job fairly easy. With the Lancaster I would burn corn when it was bitter cold and windy so it could keep up. thanks

 

[Bob Sorjanen]

I don't specifically know about St. Croix, but some manufacturers rate their stoves in BTU input. Englander rates their's with the BTU output. So basically Englander tells you how much heat is coming out of the stove (which accounts for the efficiency of the stove) where Harman tells you how many BTUs worth of pellets it's consuming, ignoring the efficiency of the stove.

As an example, the 25-EP's max feed rate is 3.9#/hr. Figuring 8000 BTU/# of pellets, that gives you about 31000 BTUs input for that stove.

So just make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

So I should just look at Englanders square footage ratings. I just didn't want to make a mistake. Was going to buy one last year, but kept the Lancaster for another year, but decided it is time to upgrade. Thanks

 

[mchasal]

So I should just look at Englanders square footage ratings. I just didn't want to make a mistake. Was going to buy one last year, but kept the Lancaster for another year, but decided it is time to upgrade. Thanks

Well, IMO (and I'm no expert) the square footage ratings are really a guess. There are so many factors that affect the square footage that a stove can heat. Insulation, air infiltration, solar gain, circulation, blah blah. The "right" way to do it is have a heat loss calculation for your space and get a stove that puts out enough BTUs to keep up with that. Given that you have a practical example of your existing stove that doesn't quite do it, you'd want to get something that has higher output than your existing stove (I know, obviously). But you have to figure out whether that spec is for input or output.
I looked on the current St Croix pages but not finding the specs for your model. I did notice that they list the efficiency and the feed rate, so if you have that info in your manual or something, plus the BTU content of your fuel, you can verify the output of your stove.

feed rate * BTUs per pound of your fuel * efficiency=output BTUS (efficiency should be a decimal eg. 86% = .86)​

Hope that's helpful

 

[slvrblkk]

Yes...I wouldn't go by the ratings....way too many factors involved.

 

[slvrblkk]

Have you considered the new 25-IP stove?

 

[railfanron]

Based on the information you gave the stove you picked is to small. Even if the one is rated output and the other input the Englander is barely the same size as the St Croix. Heating 1100sq Ft could be done with the stove you have IF your house was tight and well insulated. Without all the numbers or as someone else suggested a heat load calculation it's hard to tell but my guess would be stay with what you have and put the extra money in insulation.
Ron

 

[Bob Sorjanen]

Have you considered the new 25-IP stove?

I think I will look in to the IP, looks like I wouldn't have to push it real hard in the coldest part of the winter. Thhanks for the idea slvrbkk

 

[Bob Sorjanen]

Based on the information you gave the stove you picked is to small. Even if the one is rated output and the other input the Englander is barely the same size as the St Croix. Heating 1100sq Ft could be done with the stove you have IF your house was tight and well insulated. Without all the numbers or as someone else suggested a heat load calculation it's hard to tell but my guess would be stay with what you have and put the extra money in insulation.
Ron

the house is insulated, but would need all new windows as they are drafty. I can get the Lancaster to heat but have to run corn as it is a corn stove. From some formulas I found I need 40-44000 btu's

 

[slvrblkk]

the house is insulated, but would need all new windows as they are drafty. I can get the Lancaster to heat but have to run corn as it is a corn stove. From some formulas I found I need 40-44000 btu's

Based off of that and Mike can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Englander has one in the btu range????

 

[stoveguy2esw]

40KBTU/HR is a chitpotload of heat. (if its OUTPUT value) thing about btu claims is they are always confusing, some companies mention output values in their literature, others input values (which is disingenuous IMHO) check the certification tag for output values, certified units will have one displayed on it (it has to, usually its a white paper hanging on the door handle or taped to the glass. this shows the TESTED output determined by the testing agency which certified the stove (note this is third party the manufacturer does not have any input on this) and its listed at www.epa.gov/burnwise

getting to the numbers , if you figure output at 80% having a mean average of 8500BTU/LB consumed this means you are pushing about 6800 (ish) on the output side. now figure to get to 40KBTU output, you would have to consume almost 6 lbs/hr of pellets (or a bag every 7 hours or so) which is 3.5 bags a day. trust me , you aint gonna need that much heat for 1100 sq ft unless you lay in bed and look through the rafters at the stars

 

[Pete Zahria]

Well, IMO (and I'm no expert) the square footage ratings are really a guess.

Dan

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Fix your air infiltration first (may mean an OAK is needed as well), then take a real good look at your insulation (it may not be as insulated as you think it is). Insulation and air sealing can stop one chitpotload (good one Mike) of heat being needed.

This may help (broken link removed) if you can't go the window replacement route (you have to be careful with doing replacements).

 

[railfanron]

SmokeytheBear is right on. Insulation (self installed) is almost always cheaper than heat. I was an industrial insulation contractor for 39 years so I think I know what I'm talking about.
Ron

 

[stoveguy2esw]

bob , let me ask you this;

how much fuel did you run through the st Croix (which is a solid brand of stoves by the way) and did you supplement with traditional heat and if so how much?

I think what we need to establish is the amount of fuel run and approximate the effectiveness of the consumption. it should be noted that corn contains a lower BTU/lb potential than wood pellets do though the transfer of potential in a good corn stove is higher due to a lower air budget which allows the heat to stay within the unit longer before exhausting.
now we know the square footage , we have a little info about the insulation level, and we know you are in Maine which requires a heavier heating load than most states due to simply being closer to santa

im heating a similar space with a pellet unit and I really do not have to push it at all. typically im running a little over #40 lbs/24 hrs. up to #60lbs in the coldest part of winter, came out to right at 3 ton last winter (which was a longer one than normal for us in Va. ) taking the climate difference into account I would probably be closer to 5 ton in this house in you're climate last year but I have no real doubt the stove im running would be able to handle it