2550 Encore CAT: is this a leak or intentional?

[Gark]

Got the 2550 new in 2008. Through last winter, and more now- it requires the pri. air control to be closed more
and more(nearly all the way closed) to control the temp. below 700 F. (measured center of griddle per manual by 3
different thermometers). Same wood as last year (maybe a bit dryer) silver maple, ash, cherry. The dollar bill test:
real tight all along ash door, real tight 90% of front doors and tight along remaining 10%. In looking for a leak, found
two 1/4 inch holes 1 1/2 inches from the front leg mounts- these holes allow air from outside the stove body right into
the ash pan area. They allow fresh air into the fire from below the grate, but they are not controlled by the primary
intake shutter. Are these holes intentional, or should they have been closed/sealed when the stove was built? I'm
chasing tiny leaks through the gaskets (found none) but these newly found holes let alot more air into the firebox than
any slightly leaky gasket(s). Could anyone with an Encore 2550 CAT (post-1995) please confirm if your stove has open
1/4 inch holes 1 1/2 inches from the front leg mounting bolts toward the stove's center that lead right behind the
ashpan gasket? The holes are not threaded. Thanks in advance.

 

[tradergordo]

My totally different VC model stove has similar holes in the ash pan compartment, although mine are at the far back. They are intentional. But I agree that this does seem strange. The performance of the stove is totally different when your ash pan fills up as a result of this.

 

[Diabel]

One hole at the back of the ash pen here. Do not plug it.

 

[Gark]

Thanks for the replies. Tradergordo- great website. Diabel- ya knew what I was thinking. Heheh.
I'd best leave the holes alone.

 

[cmcramer]

Thanks for the replies. Tradergordo- great website. Diabel- ya knew what I was thinking. Heheh.
I'd best leave the holes alone.

So, Gark, have you found a leak? My 2008 Encore 2550 is entering its second season with temp control just fine - just like new. I run mine at griddle-top 650 or so.

But, I DO have a warped cat Throat Hood - new one on order.

 

[seaken]

I would double-check that the secondary air control is working properly. If it is worn it may not be shutting down the air flap properly. This is the air control on the back of the stove and regulates air into the catalytic. Make sure the probe is not eroded and make sure the bi-metal thermostat is functioning.

Also check the glass gaskets in addition to the door gaskets.

Wood that is very dry will burn hotter. You could try mixing in some green wood to help balance the rate of combustion. With care this can be a good solution. With too much green wood you'll end up with other problems. Some experimentation is in order here.

700 surface temperature is not necessarily too hot but if the temp is constantly at or over that temp you will have more maintenance issues over time. Most of time the higher temps last only for a an hour and then the stove levels off to around 550 or so. Be careful that you're not loading too often and allowing the coal bed to get too high.

And yes, the holes in the bottom are intentional. I would not change them unless there was no other choice.

 

[othelloears]

I am having the same frustration with my 2550. I have completely rebuilt it including gaskets, combuster, cat and thermostat but still can't get it to run low enough. Even after all this with the air completely closed it runs around 500-550. I know that is not bad but expect to have more control in what has been a warm fall.

One thing I found that was wrong on mine was that over the years the ask pan had sunk lower on the hinge so when it shut the lips did not hit the middle of the gasket. If you open the ash dooryou were able to slide it up on the hinge about 3/8" of an inch. I addded 3 washer to fill the space and now its perfect but still have another leak.

Any ideas?

 

[seaken]

I am having the same frustration with my 2550. I have completely rebuilt it including gaskets, combuster, cat and thermostat but still can't get it to run low enough. Even after all this with the air completely closed it runs around 500-550. I know that is not bad but expect to have more control in what has been a warm fall.

One thing I found that was wrong on mine was that over the years the ask pan had sunk lower on the hinge so when it shut the lips did not hit the middle of the gasket. If you open the ash dooryou were able to slide it up on the hinge about 3/8" of an inch. I addded 3 washer to fill the space and now its perfect but still have another leak.

Any ideas?

I think 500 degrees is a normal surface temperature for an Encore catalytic. When the catalytic is working properly the combustion temperature in the catalytic chamber is over 1200 degrees. It will be hard to lower the surface temp below 500 when the catalytic is ignited. However, there are a lot variables that affect temperature and I can't tell for sure from here. Species of wood and moisture content, draft, etc. For warmer days try burning in open-door "franklin" style. Or build a smaller fire, burn it hot and let it go out. All modern stoves work best when burning hot. Try to avoid smoldering fires.

Sean

 

[othelloears]

I appreciate everyones input and ideas. I have been burning forever and am aware of all the variables but all I am really trying to find out is whether I have a problem that I should fix namely a leak or too much draft.

Mabye I am just an "old stove" guy but it would seem to me under any circumstances I should be able to shut the air down enough to nearly kill a fire.

I did a test and physically shut the primary and secondary air by hand and still had a fire. Are there extra holes in this thing that allow air in by design?

 

[seaken]

I appreciate everyones input and ideas. I have been burning forever and am aware of all the variables but all I am really trying to find out is whether I have a problem that I should fix namely a leak or too much draft.

Mabye I am just an "old stove" guy but it would seem to me under any circumstances I should be able to shut the air down enough to nearly kill a fire.

I did a test and physically shut the primary and secondary air by hand and still had a fire. Are there extra holes in this thing that allow air in by design?

Okay, now I understand. If you come from a base of using pre-EPA stoves you will have a hard time adjusting to the new paradigm. Many of my customers have to go through this. We had a hard time making the leap ourselves. Due to the new emission standards set by the EPA we can no longer choke our stoves. The air controls on your new EPA approved stoves are not the same as you are used to. They are only going to help you control the draft and combustion rate within an acceptable "range". The goal is to lower emissions. This means burn hotter and faster. Complete combustion helps keep the air cleaner.

The problems we face with this new way of controlling the air is shorter burn times and hotter surface temperatures. It is more of a challenge than ever to properly size a wood stove to the home and the home owner. Most home owners want a big stove that can take a big load of wood but most homes require a smaller stove. A smaller stove can't get a long "8-hour" burn or can't heat the whole house without overheating the room the stove is in.

Another thing that happens is that the new stoves burn much hotter inside and the materials that have been traditional for consumer wood stoves break down faster and need more maintenance and repair. There is essentially a "furnace" in your living room but without the traditional price or looks of a furnace. In time, as air quality gets more important the price of wood stove will equal that of a furnace. It will be harder and harder for average wage earners to keep up. In the meantime, we all have to get used to higher temperatures and higher repair bills on our wood stoves. For now it is still cheaper to heat with wood in most places, even with the increased repair costs.

 

[Gark]

cmcramer- I did not find any unintentional leaks. The 2550 cat has two uncontrolled intakes by design- two 1/4 inch holes beside the front legs (fresh air into the ashpan) and the secondary intake shutter stopper peg that limits total closure. My hotter burns were caused by the improved draft that resulted from closing a pretty big leak in the stainless flue liner. My bad- I had forgot about fixing that. Have controlled the temp. for long long burns by using denser woods mixed in the load ( added oak and mullberry). The 2550 got a 8.5 hour burn at 575*f cruising temp, measured in center of griddle. Nothing like the really long burns other stoves can do, but pretty good for the little 2550. Sorry to hear of the warranty snafoo on your stove.
othelloers- your 500-550*f temp's should be no problem. They can run happy forever at 675. Our previous stove was a pre-EPA creosote maker and it COULD snuff a fire if shut all the way down. These new stoves don't allow that by design. What seaken said is right on- these stoves are either ON or OFF, with a limited range of hotness. We won't even light it up if it's 45 degrees outside.
But as suggested, I'm going to check and clean the secondary intake probe. Other posts here said that the secondary probe being corroded, dirty or melted can cause overheating and warped parts. Worth a look.