27000 finally in!!

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
2 layers of 3/4 hardi
Backer , 1/4-1/2 of mortar and 1 1/2- 2" of stone all the way around
Oh that isn't a masonry fireplace? I was just referring to the framing I can see. If that alcove is what you describe on studs that is an extremely dangerous install.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
Seriously please do not burn in that setup. It is scary.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
Could you not mount heat shields on the exposed framing?
Yes but that doesn't address the severe lack of protection in the alcove
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
Ok I read the post again, the rock is on the framing behind. I understand, I was just thinking what the drywall was on not all the way around!
Yeah initially I was just concerned with the face assuming that was an actual masonry fireplace. But now that we know how the box is constructed we know there is nowhere near enough protection for that framing.
 

stevea13

Member
Nov 18, 2016
8
nc
Yeah initially I was just concerned with the face assuming that was an actual masonry fireplace. But now that we know how the box is constructed we know there is nowhere near enough protection for that framing.
Close to 3 inches
Yeah initially I was just concerned with the face assuming that was an actual masonry fireplace. But now that we know how the box is constructed we know there is nowhere near enough protection for that framing.
Close to 3 inches of cement, mortar and stone not enough?? Manufactured heat shield is only 1/2 inches thick and spaced a inch off a bare stud
Almost 2 days of burning and the stone is barely warm
This is not some sheet metal heater that runs red hot , its 1/8 steel fire box and same outer box with a 3 inch air gap In between
I can bet you I can lay a 2x4 on top of this heater and run it for a week straight and not set 2x4 on fire
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
Close to 3 inches

Close to 3 inches of cement, mortar and stone not enough?? Manufactured heat shield is only 1/2 inches thick and spaced a inch off a bare stud
Almost 2 days of burning and the stone is barely warm
This is not some sheet metal heater that runs red hot , its 1/8 steel fire box and same outer box with a 3 inch air gap In between
I can bet you I can lay a 2x4 on top of this heater and run it for a week straight and not set 2x4 on fire
Nope without firebrick or a ventilated air space you would need 10" as is you need 36" clearance from the stove to the combustibles behind that masonry. Heat will go right through that 3" of masonry. I know exactly what the stove is and what you have is extremely dangerous.
 

stevea13

Member
Nov 18, 2016
8
nc
Nope without firebrick or a ventilated air space you would need 10" as is you need 36" clearance from the stove to the combustibles behind that masonry. Heat will go right through that 3" of masonry. I know exactly what the stove is and what you have is extremely dangerous.
I really not sure what kind of physics you guys deal with because I can assure you I can hold a torch on that wall directly above a stud till the tank runs out and its not going to reach flash point temperature to be able to ignite
Again, a 2x4 sitting on top of this stove is no going to reach flash point, so how is something behind 3 inches of stone basically going to reach flash point..if it did anything within 3ft atleast would be melting
Your actual surface temperature of single wall pipe at stove should be 300-500 max
Outside of my stove with fan running is much less than that
I'll put that 2x4 on top and let you know when it catches fire
 

gthomas785

Member
Feb 8, 2020
119
Central MA
Not sure if I really want to dive into this discussion, but here we go...

1. Material inside the wall will get hotter than exposed surfaces because it does not have air circulation to cool it off. So comparing the wall framing to a 2x4 on top of the stove is not meaningful.

2. Stone does nothing to protect the wood from heat. It absorbs a lot of heat which will trick you into thinking it's a good insulator but it isn't.

3. Even if the wood doesn't ignite after a week of burning, it will pyrolyse over time which makes it more combustible.

4. There are lots of people who burn with unsafe setups every day and think they're fine. It's usually not the routine burning that puts you in danger, but the events you didn't expect - chimney fire, forgot to turn stove down, etc - these clearances are intended to prevent a small accident from turning into a catastrophe.

So go ahead and burn this stove in your tinderbox alcove if you want, you may be fine for decades but don't say nobody warned you when it eventually burns your house down.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
I really not sure what kind of physics you guys deal with because I can assure you I can hold a torch on that wall directly above a stud till the tank runs out and its not going to reach flash point temperature to be able to ignite
Again, a 2x4 sitting on top of this stove is no going to reach flash point, so how is something behind 3 inches of stone basically going to reach flash point..if it did anything within 3ft atleast would be melting
Your actual surface temperature of single wall pipe at stove should be 300-500 max
Outside of my stove with fan running is much less than that
I'll put that 2x4 on top and let you know when it catches fire
Like gthomas said this isn't about igniting instantly. It is about pyrolization over time lowering the kindling point of that wood.

Did you replace the old air cooled low temp chimney with a proper high temp one?

Ultimately it is up to you. But this is without question a dangerous setup. And when something happens it is very unlikely that insurance will pay out on the claim. Any even half competent adjuster would see multiple clear code violations in a new install and reject the claim
 
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JohnWW

New Member
Jul 8, 2019
45
12345
Like gthomas said this isn't about igniting instantly. It is about pyrolization over time lowering the kindling point of that wood.

Did you replace the old air cooled low temp chimney with a proper high temp one?

Ultimately it is up to you. But this is without question a dangerous setup. And when something happens it is very unlikely that insurance will pay out on the claim. Any even half competent adjuster would see multiple clear code violations in a new install and reject the claim
Agreed. Even if the stove wasn't the cause of the fire, you would have insurance problems. Thank you BHoller for free professional advice, on behalf of the majority of us who follow it.
 
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