290MW of solar coming on line

[begreen]

The world's largest solar array for the moment is about to get grid tied.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...to-crank-out-290-megawatts-of-sunshine-power/

In other news, Germany is now averaging 27% renewable energy.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/

 

[Ashful]

The "290" number caught my eye. I design high power amplifiers. The largest one in my catalog consumes 290 kW of primary power. This array could power 1000 of those monsters!

 

[begreen]

RF amps for broadcast?

 

[Grisu]

The "290" number caught my eye. I design high power amplifiers. The largest one in my catalog consumes 290 kW of primary power. This array could power ten of those monsters!

Not 1000?

 

[Ashful]

Not 1000?

Hah... fingers can't keep up with the brain, sometimes. Was thinking 1000, typed "ten". Fixed it.

RF amps for broadcast?

Testing of missiles, airplanes, tanks. Ensuring they don't go haywire when exposed to high intensity RF fields, such as EM pulse weaponry, jammers, nuclear blasts...

So, what is the ROI on that solar array?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I wonder, do these big arrays have any ground cooling effect sinc e the sun is no longer hitting the ground. I guess its still heating the air above it with heat coming off those dark panels.

 

[velvetfoot]

"290MW of solar coming on line"
But not at night.

 

[woodgeek]

I wonder, do these big arrays have any ground cooling effect sinc e the sun is no longer hitting the ground. I guess its still heating the air above it with heat coming off those dark panels.

I've often wondered the same....15% of power is getting sent elsewhere.....but dark color probably more than compensates.

 

[Ashful]

I've often wondered the same....15% of power is getting sent elsewhere.....but dark color probably more than compensates.

The energy is not being consumed by the panels, only transported. It will be dissipated somewhere. There may be local cooling, but not global.

If you're going to ask this question, though... consider the effect of a large densely populated city with a high percentage of ground-source heat pumps (geothermal systems). I do wonder if we'll begin to see negative effects from changing local crust temperature in places near fault lines... say Los Angeles?

 

[jebatty]

The advance of solar and wind will accelerate the technology for a smart grid and smart devices using electricity, as well as devices that can efficiently store relatively small amounts of electricity, to shift the device use to consumption when peak power is available or when excess baseline power is available.

My freezer doesn't need to run based solely on interior temperature or for periods long enough in one cycle to bring the temperature to the set point. There is plenty of time when It can be delayed or cycled as needed to maintain temperature. It also could function like a mini-split to reduce power usage as needed just to maintain rather than cycle, or any combination of operating modes. Same thing with a refrigerator.

With nearly all of our household lighting now LED, a small battery-type new generation storage system could shift power draw to storage when the grid needs more available power, and when excess is available could grid operate for lighting and charge the storage. Same thing for most other electronic devices. What about a cube liquid metal battery pack that would do the same for an entire house?

Electric backup heating available has ceramic heat storage. Right now the utility "charges" that at night when excess power is available and at a reduced rate. It just as easily could charge during the daytime, or anytime, when excess power is available - like during the daytime when excess solar may be available.

So many possibilities exist, but many are blinded by the current outdated technology brought on by coal fired electric. The existing system was based on a straight line power supply. What would exist today if the first power was solar and not coal? We would have an infrastructure and devices that would operate in that scenario and not even be asking the questions we now ask as solar, wind and potentially other alternative energy sources continue into the mainstream.

The problem is not solar and wind, it is us who think inside a dark box or are vested in the dark box. I think it is time to move into the light.

 

[Jags]

Jim, A breakthrough in battery tech is all that would be needed to turn the energy sector on its head.

 

[Jags]

Testing of missiles, airplanes, tanks. Ensuring they don't go haywire when exposed to high intensity RF fields, such as EM pulse weaponry, jammers, nuclear blasts...

I wanna play...

 

[Ashful]

I wanna play...

It's fun in that, "I wonder if anyone will be seriously injured when we turn this thing on," sort of way. We've had more than one of these amplifiers grenade over the years, in one case throwing a 19" adjustable wrench thru a blast wall and lifted our second floor off the supporting walls. Right now I'm designing open and short circuit testers, to be put on the output of an RF amplifier, which will handle 642 kilowatts of average power. Not sure I want to be in the room when they're exercising those...

I do get to see some interesting stuff, like very large anechoic chambers:



Sort of the antithesis of saving energy, though. Do we have a "Red Room" forum?

 

[begreen]

Jim, A breakthrough in battery tech is all that would be needed to turn the energy sector on its head.

I think the problem is much, much larger. We are going to need a total shift in policy and mindset both from govt. and the public. That is non-trivial when there is such a massive and well funded disinformation campaign afoot. We have the tech already to do some dramatic reductions of fossil fuel consumption by conservation. But it is not going to be easy when folks continue to heat second and third vacation residences, build obscenely large houses, insist on goods and consumables shipped from around the planet, etc.. Sooner or later the piper will need to be paid, but I think it will be too late to change this grand experiment we are embarking on this spaceship earth. Other nations are making good progress, but the largest consumer nation is not.

 

[Jags]

You are thinking the much bigger picture than I (not surprising). Mine was in reference to renewables and the need for a good storage option at the user level. A good storage solution could virtually render the electric producers moot.

 

[begreen]

Yes, been thinking a lot about the social implications of denial and deferral lately. I can see it affecting my son's hope for their future. But you are right, a large change in battery tech would be a good step forward.

 

[Where2]

Although there is some heating effect with the solar panels, I don't think their conversion efficiency is close to that of a plant (vegetation). It's interesting you don't seem to find a heating effect in a forest. Think of all the BTUs stored in a stand of trees.

 

[Ashful]

Although there is some heating effect with the solar panels, I don't think their conversion efficiency is close to that of a plant (vegetation). It's interesting you don't seem to find a heating effect in a forest. Think of all the BTUs stored in a stand of trees.

You have that backwards, and yes, you do see a significant cooling effect in and near large forests. On a micro level, I have about 7 acres of dense woods behind my house. In the heat of summer, it is much cooler standing in or near those woods, than in my front lawn just a few hundred yards away.

 

[begreen]

I noticed the cooling effect in Dallas when I was there. The temperature difference between the open city and the SMU campus area (with lots of old shade trees) is immediately apparent. The trees cool the air via transpiration. A large oak tree is can transpire 40,000 gallons of water into the atmosphere during one year

 

[Doug MacIVER]

thought this the best place to put this up, it comes from a post by noted skeptic anthony watts. off the face of it storage would help everyone from producers to consumer.http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/25/new-battery-technology-will-be-great-if-it-is-viable/

 

[begreen]

I've read a couple papers on this technology. Sounds promising if it scales well and remains durable.

 

[begreen]

New Mexico just brought 50 MW of solar online.
(broken link removed to http://www.rechargenews.com/solar/article1366599.ece)

 

[Laszlo]

Jim, A breakthrough in battery tech is all that would be needed to turn the energy sector on its head.

According to Bill Gates' 2010 TEDtalk, all the world's battery capacity would only store 10 minutes' worth of global electric usage. Battery tech will have to be drastically cheaper and last through many more discharge cycles for it to effectively support the daily oscillations of the electric grid.

 

[jebatty]

Battery tech will improve. I love my thermal battery, 1000 gallon water tank that stores two full days of heat in the coldest of winter after only a 4-6 hour "charge" from my gasifier, and at least 10 days of reduced heat to keep the shop at 40F+.

 

[begreen]

Another article on the metal-free, flow battery tech that is developing for power storage. If it scales well it should help dramatically increase storage capacity.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/01/renewable-energy-breakthrough/