2nd newbie question: Better to err on the too-large stove...or not?

[brider]

Hello guys, I just joined today, and really love reading the posts from the guys in CT. Must be we are ALL fed-up with the highest oil prices in the country at the same time!

You've heard this before:

I've been looking at the VC Encore and now the Jotul F500 (? Oslo?) as a hopefully 80% heat source for my 1800 sq ft ranch.

Mine is the classic 3-bdrm ranch, walk in the front door, turn right down the hall to the bedrooms. Go straight into the kitchen. To the immediate left is the front room with a fireplace. Standing looking at the fire, turn right into the dining room.

An addition was added(!) attached to the former outside wall of the dining room, 2 big french doors opening into a 220 sq ft cedar-walled and ceiling room. Vaulted ceiling, windows all around that leak like crazy. The dining room also opens to the kitchen thru a standard doorway, and the kitchen opens into the addition thru another standard doorway.

We call the addition the Cold Room, because it's poorly insulated, and built up on piers. This is where we plan on putting the stove, in the farthest corner of the "L" formed by this room.

Should I be cautious in getting a stove that's TOO big for my area? I realize the heat may have a hard time finding it's way down my hallway to the bedrooms, but the rest (main living areas) of the house is fairly open to this "cold room".

So take off a few hundred sq ft for the bedrooms it won't heat, and you're down to ~1400 sq ft to heat.

I'm afraid of roasting every living thing near the stove if I get one that's too big. Would the (2) I mentioned be the proper size?

Should I stay away from stoves rated around 1,900 sq ft max and above? I've been looking at used ones, some good prices, but also some tempting big stoves, too.

Any help, jokes, etc, would be appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Welcome brider. I think you'd be fine with the Oslo. You can run it with a half load and let it burn out when it's not so cold outside. It's hard to recommend the Encore with the uncertainties surrounding VC right now. Your needs are somewhat similar to a recent thread. See if this is helpful:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/18781/

In the meantime fix those windows and maybe work on the insulation from top to bottom. No sense heating outdoors ;-)

Also, with a fan at the far end of the hallway blowing toward the stove you may be able to get some heat down there. Maybe the BRs won't be 80 degrees, but a 5-10 degree rise could be possible. It's worth a try.

 

[fossil]

...Any help, jokes, etc, would be appreciated.

OK...have you heard the one about the magician who was walking down the street and turned into a stove store? :lol: BB told me that one (or was it Jags? dunno), and I tell ya I just haven't stopped laughing since. He's a riot. Anyway, welcome to the forum, and all I can tell you is that in my admittedly limited experience, bigger is better. That's not to say that you need to run out and buy an old steam locomotive and convert it, but you know what your heating goal is, and you've done your homework on what's available and narrowed the choices down. If it comes down to two stoves that would suit your purposes, of equal attractiveness to you, opt for the higher capacity of the two. You don't have to burn it flat out all the time. And now go and tighten up that house! Welcome, again. Rick

 

[rtljr]

For the past two heating seasons, I used a Vermont Castings Encore NC - the non catalytic version with the Everburn secondary burn system. Based on my experience, I would NOT recommend wood-burning stove from Vermont Castings.

Our first Encore was uncontrollable and would glow red around the flue collar even with the primary air control at its minimum setting. The dealer tried their best to correct the problem - loose bolts holding the refractory in place (they were hand tight from the factory), ash pan and door adjustments - but the problem persisted. The distributor sent a representative who found issues with the ash pan door and pronounced the stove fit in June 2007. On the first firing in October 2007, the stove once again glowed red around the flue collar. I proposed a swap for a Encore catalytic but was told we would be given another Encore non cat, since that was our original purchase. The second stove was installed in November 2007 and after break-in fires promptly exhibited the same glowing around the flue collar. The refractory shoe also cracked the first week of use.

This time a factory representative was sent from Bethel, Vermont who found issues with the ash pan door and front doors. The night after the stove was adjusted and pronounced fit and after the cracked refractory shoe was replaced, it once again glowed red around the flue collar. I was told that the glowing on the Encore NC was normal by the factory rep and that the stove would become more controllable after ash built up in the air slots in the shoe. Now totally frustrated and wanting no part of the Everburn technology, I called the VC factory rep. He offered any of their catalytic stoves as a replacement and said that to take the burden off the selling dealer I would deal directly with the Bethel, Vermont factory. I thought over this offer for a few days and instead called and requested a refund. The rep said that he would get back to me the next day and I never heard another word from him. From that point forward my voice mails both to the Bethel, Vermont extension and the CFM extension were not returned. Calls to the VC Northeast Regional Sales Manager also went unanswered.

In desperation I returned to the selling dealer on a Friday in March 2008. On the following Monday, the distributor called and told me that he would be traveling with the VC Northeast Sales Manager the next day. By Thursday, the selling dealer called to tell me that they would remove the stove and refund our money.

My mistake was basing my original purchase decision on the VC I knew from the early 1980s when my parents and in-laws both purchased VC products. The old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." comes to mind.

I am now the owner of a Woodstock Keystone that actually is controllable using the primary air control. In fact, if I set the air control to the zero setting, the fire will actually go out. At first I was stunned that I could successfully control the burn in my new stove. After experiencing long burn times with enough coals to restart after twelve hours as opposed to the Encore which would be down to coals in two to three hours, I was ecstatic.

In Vermont Castings defense, however, the VC wood box that we purchased performed flawlessly.

 

[savageactor7]

brider there's no reason you can't have a small fire in a bigger stove...and if I were you I'd put the stove where your family spends most of their time. If that's the cold room fine, the newer stoves have an ambiance not to mention warmth to them that you'll enjoy more if you're nearer to it. I guess what I trying to say is don't just stick it into the cold room cause nobody goes there and the stove will be out of the way. A wood stove is a pleasure and a luxury to behold on a cold day...it can also be mesmerizing and romantic too. Hard to describe I guess...

 

[fossil]

...Hard to describe I guess...

Geez, savage, I thought you just did a damn fine job!. Rick

 

[paulie]

Yes indeed Savage very well put. I love to come home and sit in front of the stove. glass of wine, good women, nice fire....someone butt in and inform me if life gets any better!

 

[brider]

Great bunch of responses!

What exactly are the currect "issues" with VC that might suggest I avoid them?

Like anything these days, there seem to be a million choices for woodstove manufacturers, I started looking at VC because I think I saw an ad for them (advertising works!). But then I read some postings here regarding Jotul, so I began looking there. Also, I was considering a USED VC because there are so many of them, but I have learned to stay away from those early models.

But regarding a VC model that's under 10 yrs old and is in a "refurbished" condition, would it be worth considering? I mean, there's no bearings or moving parts to wear out, right?

One last thing about my "cold room" where the stove would go: Yes, it's really the primary TV room, so it is de-facto the main living area. But it has this vaulted ceiling, where the rest of the house has regular ceilings. Should I run the ceiling fan blowing DOWN to try to push the hot air under the doorways into the adjacent rooms, or run it pulling air UP?

 

[fossil]

Should I run the ceiling fan blowing DOWN to try to push the hot air under the doorways into the adjacent rooms, or run it pulling air UP?

Try up first, that should do the trick nicely for you. If you're not satisfied with that, try down...then I bet you'll reverse it back to UP. Rick

EDIT: You're not likely to "push hot air under the doorways", regardless of fan direction. What the fan's gonna do is establish a vertical circulation in the room to keep churning the air up high under that vaulted ceiling that would otherwise just become a big stratified layer of nice hot air. The room the stove's in will be toasty and pretty even-temperatured, but air's not going to leave the room in significant quantities from the action of the ceiling fan.

 

[blackgooseJT]

Jotul F 500 "Oslo" is a good choice here. Good stove;Well made; Good track record. I think most will tell you to avoid VC.You can't make chicken salad with chicken s**t. Fossil is quite right about air movement. If you want to move it sideways you'll have to use horizontal fans (room to room) A ceiling fan homogenizes the air in a room to make it more uniform .A "room heater" tends to overheat the room in which it is placed, unless you can use convection by placing the stove in a basement and thereby not need fans. (usually not practical and often wasteful)Plan on heating the room the stove is in and use highly placed room to room fans if you need to move it sideways. I did have a customer some years ago who usd a set of booster fans and insulated duct to move warm ceiling air from his stove room to the cooler ends of the house through his attic.He designed it himself and it was not complicated. Seemed to work well enough.A small capacity fan running consistently and quietly can move alot of heat.

blackgooseJT

 

[chad3]

Good stove for my 1400 sqf cape, but the room that the stove is in (sunroom) is very hot compared to the rest. Be careful about putting a stove in to heat the entire house in a room that you will stay in for most of the time (just my take). I'm close to the same as you in terms of living region (near SE coast of CT), and I love the stove. Didn't really think about the glass when I purchased it, but it really is nice to look at.
Chad

 

[fossil]

We're doing a major house remodel right now, which included pulling out and scrapping the old electric forced air furnace from the crawl space beneath the first floor, as well as all the originally installed ductwork, installing a new higher efficiency electric furnace in what used to be a linen closet (where I can actually access it to change the filter), and redesigning/re-routing all the ducts in the house based on a real heat balance. Lot of money for something we hope we rarely use, but that's not the point. While we were at it, I said to put a completely separate system in, with its own variable speed fan & filter, and its own ducts. It takes a suction from the most remote corners of the three rooms farthest from the great room where the wood stove is, and returns that air to a register we put into the brick hearth just behind the stove. Nothing to do with the "main" system. My hope is that we'll take cold air from the floor of those remote rooms, and return it to the heat source, and that air will then be replaced by warmer air moving in through the open doorways. Won't know until next season whether or not my idea works. Rick

 

[webbie]

Great bunch of responses!

What exactly are the currect "issues" with VC that might suggest I avoid them?

Company is in bankruptcy right now.
Right before that time, they doubled and tripled the prices of certain replacement parts.

 

[Cessna]

We're doing a major house remodel right now, which included pulling out and scrapping the old electric forced air furnace from the crawl space beneath the first floor, as well as all the originally installed ductwork, installing a new higher efficiency electric furnace in what used to be a linen closet (where I can actually access it to change the filter), and redesigning/re-routing all the ducts in the house based on a real heat balance. Lot of money for something we hope we rarely use, but that's not the point. While we were at it, I said to put a completely separate system in, with its own variable speed fan & filter, and its own ducts. It takes a suction from the most remote corners of the three rooms farthest from the great room where the wood stove is, and returns that air to a register we put into the brick hearth just behind the stove. Nothing to do with the "main" system. My hope is that we'll take cold air from the floor of those remote rooms, and return it to the heat source, and that air will then be replaced by warmer air moving in through the open doorways. Won't know until next season whether or not my idea works. Rick

Saw this old response from you Fossil and wanted to ask how the separate system with its own fan, ducts, etc. worked out?

 

[fossil]

Not a miracle...pretty subtle (as one might expect), but it certainly works to a noticeable extent over time. I'm glad I had it installed. Rick

 

[Cessna]

Not a miracle...pretty subtle (as one might expect), but it certainly works to a noticeable extent over time. I'm glad I had it installed. Rick

Glad it worked ok for ya Rick and I appreciate the feedback. Thought it sounded like a good idea. Rob

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Brider, also keep in mind what the marketing people like to do. It is easy to overstate how many sq ft a stove will heat or how efficient the stove is, etc. Most folks won't complain about a stove being too large but they will about a stove too small.

One thing you will notice a lot is the folks who get a small stove and it heats just fine....during the daytime. However, when they go to bed at night and get up to a cold house in the morning, they realize that even though they filled that firebox full of good wood, it still was not enough. Moral is, make sure if you want to hold a fire all night and not freeze, you need a decent sized firebox.

 

[DianeB]

Run the ceiling fan in the winter mode which is pushing the air up. Oslo will be great for your zone and square footage. We are at 1,200 and went with the Castine which is working out great. You are greater by a 3rd so if I were you, I would go up to something the size of the Oslo