30 year old Fisher Mama Bear

[ptm01]

Convinced my friend to retire his cracked Vermont Castings Wood Stove thanks to the advice here. He is interested in the Fisher Mama Bear stoves. He likes steel over cast iron and he likes the size which makes it easier to load it with wood in the morning. I found a 30 year old Fisher. It has cracks in the fire brick on the sides , but not the bottom. What can go wrong with these stoves? What should you look out for when buying a used one? Can one add on an air intake kit?
Thanks again for the help.
-Peter

 

[kennyp2339]

Your gona have to post this question in the classics section, but to be honest older stoves have nothing on todays new tech, efficiency, wood consumption, environmental cleanliness run circles around these older stoves.
There is a Fischer section within the classic section and some very knowledgeable posters, there is even a few instructions on replacing the fire brick, adding a baffle for improved performance, parts (draft caps) and just about everything you need to know about those stoves. Good luck and keep chopping wood.

 

[john26]

I have a friend that heats a well insulated "party barn" with a pappa bear strictly on the weekends but he seems to use quite a bit of wood and cleans the chimney several times during the winter.

 

[peakbagger]

Coaly are you listening?

Unless the stove is rotted to bits or perpetually overheated, hard to envision one that wont do the job. The major caveat is its not a modern high efficiency design. That has its good parts and bad parts. Good part is it can get away with more marginal wood if it needs to but the bad part will be using more of it over the long run as its not a particularly efficient design although as mentioned you can make a bit more efficient. Then again if the prior VC stove had cracked fireback it was probably no more efficient than a Fisher design.

There is also the issue that the stove may need a ratings tag for an insurance company to accept it being installed.

 

[Don H]

What you should look for:
UL Label if required in your area.
Size stove is suitable for your needs.
Check for legs being cut down or other modifications.
Is there gasket material around the door channel? It shouldn't have any. If so maybe the door isn't sealing properly.
Cracks in the cast door, especially check the web that holds the draft knob bolt.
Door latch and draft knobs work. Usually they can be freed up with a little lube and patience.
Door hinges shouldn't have excessive play. Replacing hinge pins can often fix that.
No cracks in the steel. Look closely around the thimble and door channel. Cracks can be welded.
Rust through the floor (often hidden by the bricks). This is a no deal for me.
Cracked bricks. Easily replaced but if you need to replace most of them it can cost $100 so factor that in your offer.

 

[Todd67]

I heat my old, poorly insulated 2-story house with a Fisher Mama Bear. I live in northern NY, and my Fisher stove is my only heat source. The only upgrade I made to my Mama Bear is the baffle plate that I added inside the stove. It's resting on firebricks, so it's not a permanent modification.

I don't burn any more wood than my neighbor's do in their new stoves. There might be better stoves out there, but my Fisher stove is the perfect stove for me and my family. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

[ptm01]

So, the baffle plate sits above the burning wood, before the exhaust pipe. Does it work by helping burn off un-burnt gas? Or by holding onto heat?

 

[Todd67]

Yes, the rear of the baffle plate sits lower than the front of the plate. It burns more of the smoke and gases, and helps put off more heat. It makes the stove burn hotter and more efficient. I usually have no smoke coming out of my chimney once the fire is going and the draft caps on the doors are barely open (1/4 turn).

 

[Don H]

There's an entire thread by coaly on how to make and install a baffle plate
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...d-fisher-more-heat-less-smoke-under-25.74710/

 

[bholler]

Ok I have used many different stoves new and old. And I will tell you there is absolutely no way I would ever think of going back to using a Fisher to heat my house. They just aren't as good as any decent modern stove. Yes in this sub forum you will hear all about how fishers are the best stoves out there. But that is mainly from guys who have never used a modern stove. My vote is skip the outdated stoves and get something from this century

 

[coaly]

Two Fisher stoves are made with outdoor air intakes. Goldilocks, and Honey Bear Convertible for mobile home use.

An intake can be made for any stove installed on an outside wall, or close to the stove with PVC and a screen on the outside end. Elbow upwards inside, elbow downwards outside. This prevents warm inside air from dropping down out of the house, or cold air from coming in unless a mechanical blower such as a range or bath fan draws it in. This is not a direct connection, but better than allowing air to be pushed into the home far from the stove when the stove is burning. If cold air coming in an intake headed towards the stove is not acceptable (the stove will get the same amount of air from anywhere it can across the house) You can make an air mixing box from a piece of furnace ducting, if over a basement, one intake from outside leads into box, another from basement leads into box mixing the air allowing the moderated air up though a vent near the stove.

Other than items mentioned above, keep air intake dampers and hinge pins greased with high temp grease or silver anti-sieze. These are the only wear points.

Cracked firebricks are not a problem, they only need replacing when chunks are missing. Ash will pack between cracks filling the gaps. The rear ones usually get broken from tossing wood in carelessly.

Depending on chimney, a baffle is highly recommended.

Some like cast iron stoves due to transmitting heat faster and longer than steel plate, but they are made with many parts that require maintenance to keep them from leaking at joints and are not as easy to repair or weld as a steel plate stove. The deep, narrow shape of the Mama and Papa have many advantages over more square stoves that are loaded sideways. The older stoves also burn standing dead, damp, or not premium dried wood better. It is never good to use wet or unseasoned wood, but a newer stove that relies on keeping the firebox hot to maintain combustion of smoke particles won't burn any cleaner than an old stove when smoldered. The fireboxes on the newer stoves generally need to be smaller to maintain higher temperatures above the fire. I like to be able to load more wood for longer burns without reloading as often as a newer stoves requires it. This may be because I only have experience with smaller new style stoves that won't be burning after 8 or 10 hours. For instant high heat output, you can't beat an older stove. Just depends on what you need.

 

[bholler]

Two Fisher stoves are made with outdoor air intakes. Goldilocks, and Honey Bear Convertible for mobile home use.

An intake can be made for any stove installed on an outside wall, or close to the stove with PVC and a screen on the outside end. Elbow upwards inside, elbow downwards outside. This prevents warm inside air from dropping down out of the house, or cold air from coming in unless a mechanical blower such as a range or bath fan draws it in. This is not a direct connection, but better than allowing air to be pushed into the home far from the stove when the stove is burning. If cold air coming in an intake headed towards the stove is not acceptable (the stove will get the same amount of air from anywhere it can across the house) You can make an air mixing box from a piece of furnace ducting, if over a basement, one intake from outside leads into box, another from basement leads into box mixing the air allowing the moderated air up though a vent near the stove.

Other than items mentioned above, keep air intake dampers and hinge pins greased with high temp grease or silver anti-sieze. These are the only wear points.

Cracked firebricks are not a problem, they only need replacing when chunks are missing. Ash will pack between cracks filling the gaps. The rear ones usually get broken from tossing wood in carelessly.

Depending on chimney, a baffle is highly recommended.

Some like cast iron stoves due to transmitting heat faster and longer than steel plate, but they are made with many parts that require maintenance to keep them from leaking at joints and are not as easy to repair or weld as a steel plate stove. The deep, narrow shape of the Mama and Papa have many advantages over more square stoves that are loaded sideways. The older stoves also burn standing dead, damp, or not premium dried wood better. It is never good to use wet or unseasoned wood, but a newer stove that relies on keeping the firebox hot to maintain combustion of smoke particles won't burn any cleaner than an old stove when smoldered. The fireboxes on the newer stoves generally need to be smaller to maintain higher temperatures above the fire. I like to be able to load more wood for longer burns without reloading as often as a newer stoves requires it. This may be because I only have experience with smaller new style stoves that won't be burning after 8 or 10 hours. For instant high heat output, you can't beat an older stove. Just depends on what you need.

How often do you think modern stoves need reloaded? There are many different sizes and types of modern stoves. With burn times ranging from a few hours to a couple days. And no they don't need power and yes they work best with good dry wood but so do old ones like fishers.

 

[Todd67]

What kind of guy gets on a Fisher Stove forum, put together for Fisher Stove owners, collectors & enthusiasts, just to constantly bash Fisher stoves?

Bholler, please stop hijacking our beloved Fisher Stove forum with so much negativity. We don't bash your new EPA stoves, so show a little respect and courtesy toward us "inexperienced" Fisher stove users. Your positive feedback and knowledge is very informative and welcome. Let's keep this a positive Fisher Stove forum and try to get along.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

 

[bholler]

What kind of guy gets on a Fisher Stove forum, put together for Fisher Stove owners, collectors & enthusiasts, just to constantly bash Fisher stoves?

Bholler, please stop hijacking our beloved Fisher Stove forum with so much negativity. We don't bash your new EPA stoves, so show a little respect and courtesy toward us "inexperienced" Fisher stove users. Your positive feedback and knowledge is very informative and welcome. Let's keep this a positive Fisher Stove forum and try to get along.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

This was posted in the regular hearth forum and moved here before I was able to comment. And just because this is a dedicated Fisher forum doesn't mean others need to ignore the innacurate info constantly thrown around here about modern stoves. And for the record I don't bash fishers. I simply present my experiences having used fishers as well as many other stoves.

 

[coaly]

How often do you think modern stoves need reloaded? There are many different sizes and types of modern stoves. With burn times ranging from a few hours to a couple days. And no they don't need power and yes they work best with good dry wood but so do old ones like fishers.

So far I've had 3 experiences with EPA stoves that no matter what I tried, they wouldn't burn long enough (heat with rolling flames more then 3 hours) to keep the owners comfortable. Could be they were too small. They had good double wall insulated chimneys, or insulated liner in a fireplace flue. I posted the story about my neighbor that bought a new Lopi Endeavor a couple years ago. Our log homes were brought from Finland at the same time as kits, and are both the same 3 bed room model. 792 square feet. He lives in his full time, mine is used as an off grid cabin. Many times I would go over and get his flaming with rolling flames at the top, to find his smoking worse than mine in an hour. Or they would leave, and his would belch smoke for the rest of the day! He had to have his chimney doubled in height and added guy wires to get it to burn right. The top half has turned blue! I suggested an outdoor air intake kit, which we installed to get it to breath easier. The first winter he froze some pipes and added some electric baseboard. I don't have that option with solar low voltage electric. I heat mine with a Mama Bear, since it's cold when I get there and I use it for water heating and cooking on the larger top. He can't boil water on his. He comes over and can't believe the heat radiating all the way around from my stove. His is in a corner, mine is in the center. I believe I paid 200 for the stove (could have been one I bought for $100) and the through the roof chimney kit was on sale at Home Depot for $159. plus one chimney section. I know he paid over $3500.
Guess who sold their stove for $500 and bought an unvented propane fireplace stove? His new metal roof still has the 6 foot chrome chimney, ugly as sin on his cabin next to me.

I have a new EPA stove I removed from a home I bought for a rental next door to me. I'll be taking it to the cabin to try with the same chimney. I don't expect it to work well with one chimney section that is just at 3 feet above roof penetration, but near the peak. Cathedral ceiling with over 8 feet of single wall pipe inside. I'm surprised the Fisher works as good as it does with the junk I through at it. I finally built a wood shed for solar panels on the roof of it, so next year I should have some wood in dry storage. It will never be 2 years old, but a lot better than what I have. If I left 2 years worth of wood drying there, I'm afraid I'd find one years worth when I get there! Storm damaged free stuff around here from 2 recent ice storms, no lack of green or old wet spongey wood!

 

[bholler]

Or should I move the thread back out of this sub forum to give an objective opinion?

 

[bholler]

So far I've had 3 experiences with EPA stoves that no matter what I tried, they wouldn't burn long enough (heat with rolling flames more then 3 hours) to keep the owners comfortable. Could be they were too small. They had good double wall insulated chimneys, or insulated liner in a fireplace flue. I posted the story about my neighbor that bought a new Lopi Endeavor a couple years ago. Our log homes were brought from Finland at the same time as kits, and are both the same 3 bed room model. 792 square feet. He lives in his full time, mine is used as an off grid cabin. Many times I would go over and get his flaming with rolling flames at the top, to find his smoking worse than mine in an hour. Or they would leave, and his would belch smoke for the rest of the day! He had to have his chimney doubled in height and added guy wires to get it to burn right. The top half has turned blue! I suggested an outdoor air intake kit, which we installed to get it to breath easier. The first winter he froze some pipes and added some electric baseboard. I don't have that option with solar low voltage electric. I heat mine with a Mama Bear, since it's cold when I get there and I use it for water heating and cooking on the larger top. He can't boil water on his. He comes over and can't believe the heat radiating all the way around from my stove. His is in a corner, mine is in the center. I believe I paid 200 for the stove (could have been one I bought for $100) and the through the roof chimney kit was on sale at Home Depot for $159. plus one chimney section. I know he paid over $3500.
Guess who sold their stove for $500 and bought an unvented propane fireplace stove? His new metal roof still has the 6 foot chrome chimney, ugly as sin on his cabin next to me.

I have a new EPA stove I removed from a home I bought for a rental next door to me. I'll be taking it to the cabin to try with the same chimney. I don't expect it to work well with one chimney section that is just at 3 feet above roof penetration, but near the peak. Cathedral ceiling with over 8 feet of single wall pipe inside. I'm surprised the Fisher works as good as it does with the junk I through at it. I finally built a wood shed for solar panels on the roof of it, so next year I should have some wood in dry storage. It will never be 2 years old, but a lot better than what I have. If I left 2 years worth of wood drying there, I'm afraid I'd find one years worth when I get there! Storm damaged free stuff around here from 2 recent ice storms, no lack of green or old wet spongey wood!

Yes if someone buys a stove that is to small uses bad fuel or doesn't bother to learn how to run their modern stove it won't work for them. That isn't a fault of the stove it is a fault of the operator. In addition comparing the price of a used stove compared to a new one isn't very fair. My quadrafire was bought for $250. My regency cost $200.

 

[ptm01]

There's an entire thread by coaly on how to make and install a baffle plate
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...d-fisher-more-heat-less-smoke-under-25.74710/

Wow, that is super simple and smart. Thanks for that link.

 

[coaly]

What kind of guy gets on a Fisher Stove forum, put together for Fisher Stove owners, collectors & enthusiasts, just to constantly bash Fisher stoves?

Bholler, please stop hijacking our beloved Fisher Stove forum with so much negativity. We don't bash your new EPA stoves, so show a little respect and courtesy toward us "inexperienced" Fisher stove users. Your positive feedback and knowledge is very informative and welcome. Let's keep this a positive Fisher Stove forum and try to get along.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

Go easy on him, he hasn't read or agreed to the terms in the Fisher Cult Handbook.