HELP!!! THE STOVE BLEW ITS LID!!!

[scotsman]

What the HECK is going on?

I had the stove below cat temp, air at about 1.0, half a load of wood, little or no flame and I was in the floor in front of it doing some stretching when the thing went WHUMP! The lid popped up about 3 inches and it blew carbon out all around the stove for about 2 feet Scared the living poop out of me and Lynda! The lid went back down into it's place and I opened the damper (still in bypass) and came down here to post.

I need some answers quick. I don't know if I should even be down here (in the basement) or not. What should I do? Thanks--

 

[hareball]

Yikes!! Some of the members were just discussing something like this in a thread a few days ago and hopefully they can help you!

 

[webbie]

Here ya go:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/flashback

 

[BrotherBart]

What lid is there on a Fireview?

 

[ChillyGator]

What lid is there on a Fireview?

The NEW one :snake: THAT'S SOME DRY WOOD

 

[scotsman]

What lid is there on a Fireview?

There is a "lid". It is the whole top of the stove and weighs about 40 some odd lbs., maybe more, I haven't weighed it. It's hinged but does not lock down. That (#%&@ thing lifted about three inches and blew carbon all over the place. I just happened to be looking at it when it blew. It blew out carbon and lots of fibers of gasket which settled on the lid. Stuff is everywhere.

I've got the fire extinguisher out and feel like I need to guard it!! My heart rate is still way up!

Thanks for the link, Craig.

 

[Hanko]

No big deal, the oslo does it when I leave the dooe open too long with a new load of wood. I just make sure I leave the primary air open when I close the door. It is pretty cool. KAAAAAAAAAAAAWUMP, POOOOOF

 

[BrotherBart]

Just a "backpuff" sometimes called "woofing". Not enough heat or oxygen to ignite gases coming off the wood and all of a sudden they catch a lick of flame or pull air down the chimney and ignite all at once and since the firebox is full of gases at that point they explode all at once. Keep that sucker burning. Get it to cat temp with flames on the wood and then engage the cat to burn those gases.

Fun to hear in a stove with a flex liner because it "crinkles" all the way up the pipe when it happens. When it happens because you open the door and the air rushes in you lose a few eyebrows.

 

[Slow1]

What happened is pretty simple - Craig linked you to the explanation.

How you got to that point is what I'm trying to figure out so that you can avoid it. I've had a few backpuffs in my stove, but never anything near enough to lift the lid!


So if I'm understanding it right, you had the cat engaged and no flames in the box with air at 1? Given that you report temp was below cat temp and from what I know of your super dry wood Im guessing that you had just loaded up. Thus I would have to say you engaged too soon. Keep in mind that wood will out-gas very quickly at first as it heats up.

Now if the cat was NOT engaged and all my other assumptions are right, then my question is why wasn't there a flame in the box at that point? If it was a fresh load and it just had not yet ignited then that puff was your ignition - solution for future would be to insure a flame is in the box sooner - give it more air at reload until you have a flame.

 

[scotsman]

Just a "backpuff" sometimes called "woofing". Not enough heat or oxygen to ignite gases coming off the wood and all of a sudden they catch a lick of flame or pull air down the chimney and ignite all at once and since the firebox is full of gases at that point they explode all at once. Keep that sucker burning. Get it to cat temp with flames on the wood and then engage the cat to burn those gases.

Fun to hear in a stove with a flex liner because it "crinkles" all the way up the pipe when it happens. When it happens because you open the door and the air rushes in you lose a few eyebrows.

So, I don't have a defective stove? Just a defective operator? I'll for sure not do THAT again! That was far more agressive than mere puffing or woofing in my book and not anywhere near an "entertainment" grade experience. I don't know how long it will take for my heart to settle down!

 

[Slow1]

Oh and as to "will it happen again right now?" - well, generally speaking if you have flames in the box you are clear. Once you get the cat up to temp and engage, you should be good to go as well - certainly shouldn't have anything near as large a poof.

IF you were to keep having this problem during a normal burn - i.e. after getting the cat engaged and with air down etc then you get into the questions of draft, house air-pressure etc. If you don't have a good enough draft it can also cause such issues. However, given your history so far with the stove I'm not guessing this is likely your issue.

 

[ChillyGator]

While reloading in the middle of the night I sometimes pass gas when I bend over to put splits in........pulls it straight in!

THAT HAD TO BE SOME SCARY $^%&^...... try and relax for a spell

 

[scotsman]

What happened is pretty simple - Craig linked you to the explanation.

How you got to that point is what I'm trying to figure out so that you can avoid it. I've had a few backpuffs in my stove, but never anything near enough to lift the lid!


So if I'm understanding it right, you had the cat engaged and no flames in the box with air at 1? Given that you report temp was below cat temp and from what I know of your super dry wood Im guessing that you had just loaded up. Thus I would have to say you engaged too soon. Keep in mind that wood will out-gas very quickly at first as it heats up.

Now if the cat was NOT engaged and all my other assumptions are right, then my question is why wasn't there a flame in the box at that point? If it was a fresh load and it just had not yet ignited then that puff was your ignition - solution for future would be to insure a flame is in the box sooner - give it more air at reload until you have a flame.

Cat was not engaged yet, temp was too low. Load was in for about 15 minutes, but air was cut down to about 1.0 after being at wide open for about 10 minutes. There was very little flame. In fact, I was about to go over to it and give it more air when it blew! So, engaged cat or more air will prevent this? Sounds like a plan. Lesson learned.

Thanks for the reponses. Sure as heck got my attention!

 

[Slow1]

What happened is pretty simple - Craig linked you to the explanation.

How you got to that point is what I'm trying to figure out so that you can avoid it. I've had a few backpuffs in my stove, but never anything near enough to lift the lid!


So if I'm understanding it right, you had the cat engaged and no flames in the box with air at 1? Given that you report temp was below cat temp and from what I know of your super dry wood Im guessing that you had just loaded up. Thus I would have to say you engaged too soon. Keep in mind that wood will out-gas very quickly at first as it heats up.

Now if the cat was NOT engaged and all my other assumptions are right, then my question is why wasn't there a flame in the box at that point? If it was a fresh load and it just had not yet ignited then that puff was your ignition - solution for future would be to insure a flame is in the box sooner - give it more air at reload until you have a flame.

Cat was not engaged yet, temp was too low. Load was in for about 15 minutes, but air was cut down to about 1.0 after being at wide open for about 10 minutes. There was very little flame. In fact, I was about to go over to it and give it more air when it blew! So, engaged cat or more air will prevent this? Sounds like a plan. Lesson learned.

Thanks for the reponses. Sure as heck got my attention!

Ok - if cat was not engaged then I would say you cut the air a bit too low too soon. In fact it might well have been running full open and then the rapid cut down to 1 that contributed to your issue - you might have gotten the wood hot and outgasing in a hurry, but then deprived it of the O2 it needed to burn, thus the stove filled up with hot fumes just waiting for enough O2 to ignite - once it got it from whatever source and/or a small flame kicked in (or perhaps the cat engaged momentarily and started a chain reaction?) it fired off that fuel load just like the inside of an engine. The pressure had to go somewhere and pop went the lid. As someone once said - there is a reason that code requires three or more screws in each chimney connection eh?

I wouldn't advise engaging the cat any sooner as that would just make things worse in other ways if nothing else. You want to keep flames going during the startup so those gases don't build up as they need to burn off. Each load is different etc - your wood is much dryer than mine, but I generally run at about 2 during reload until flue temp is 500 (surface) then engage the cat. It seems to work for me. YMMV of course.

 

[Mesquite]

Just a "backpuff" sometimes called "woofing". Not enough heat or oxygen to ignite gases coming off the wood and all of a sudden they catch a lick of flame or pull air down the chimney and ignite all at once and since the firebox is full of gases at that point they explode all at once. Keep that sucker burning. Get it to cat temp with flames on the wood and then engage the cat to burn those gases.

Fun to hear in a stove with a flex liner because it "crinkles" all the way up the pipe when it happens. When it happens because you open the door and the air rushes in you lose a few eyebrows.

So, I don't have a defective stove? Just a defective operator? I'll for sure not do THAT again! That was far more agressive than mere puffing or woofing in my book and not anywhere near an "entertainment" grade experience. I don't know how long it will take for my heart to settle down!

Well Tex, by now, your heart will have settled down and you will have changed your underwear. ;-) However, there is one thing you might want to check. If you removed the shipping bolts that hold down the cat, take a look to insure that the "event" didn't dislodge the cat. It needs to sit squarely on it's gasket. My thought is if it was enough of a force to move the lid, it certainly could dislodge the cat!

 

[tcassavaugh]

used to get quite a few puffs with my vc large cat stove, although not to the extreme you're talking about but every now and then it wouldn't woof but outright bark. I'd just crack the damper a little and let it get a little more air for awhile and close her down again. had it happen with an old oil fed space heater in germany long long ago....blew the cook top right off of it and melted the floor. that was fun.

 

[Todd]

Cat was not engaged yet, temp was too low. Load was in for about 15 minutes, but air was cut down to about 1.0 after being at wide open for about 10 minutes. There was very little flame. In fact, I was about to go over to it and give it more air when it blew! So, engaged cat or more air will prevent this? Sounds like a plan. Lesson learned.

Thanks for the reponses. Sure as heck got my attention!

Your running the stove wide open for 10 minutes? That's the problem, it had to be going like a jet engine with that 80 year old wood and then you cut off the air causing a huge back puff. You will find that your stove will heat up faster in the bypass mode with less air. I always reload at #2, If I go higher all the flames get sucked up the back and out the flue along with most of the heat. I bet that was a site to see.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

But I always reload with the draft full open. I'll run full open and if the flue temperature reaches 500 (surface) then I'll cut to 1 or less and turn the cat on.

We used to have a stove that seemed to like to give back puffing and some can be pretty violent. One stove was a cabinet stove and it was so violent that it caused the door of the cabinet to open and really stunk up the house. With the Fireview we have had exactly one back puff but it was extremely mild. Just a little smoke smell in the house.

Hope you've settled down Terry! I'll bet you slept lightly.

 

[scotsman]

Just a "backpuff" sometimes called "woofing". Not enough heat or oxygen to ignite gases coming off the wood and all of a sudden they catch a lick of flame or pull air down the chimney and ignite all at once and since the firebox is full of gases at that point they explode all at once. Keep that sucker burning. Get it to cat temp with flames on the wood and then engage the cat to burn those gases.

Fun to hear in a stove with a flex liner because it "crinkles" all the way up the pipe when it happens. When it happens because you open the door and the air rushes in you lose a few eyebrows.

So, I don't have a defective stove? Just a defective operator? I'll for sure not do THAT again! That was far more agressive than mere puffing or woofing in my book and not anywhere near an "entertainment" grade experience. I don't know how long it will take for my heart to settle down!

Well Tex, by now, your heart will have settled down and you will have changed your underwear. ;-) However, there is one thing you might want to check. If you removed the shipping bolts that hold down the cat, take a look to insure that the "event" didn't dislodge the cat. It needs to sit squarely on it's gasket. My thought is if it was enough of a force to move the lid, it certainly could dislodge the cat!

Good point and I didn't think of it, but I also didn't think of removing the bolts until it had been burning for a week, so it's still secured with the bolts . . . I hope. Guess I'd better let it cool down and have a look. Thanks for thinking about that. I sure as heck didn't. Heart rate has returned to normal, thanks for asking.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Don't worry Terry. If the bolts were in, the cat will be in place.

 

[scotsman]

But I always reload with the draft full open. I'll run full open and if the flue temperature reaches 500 (surface) then I'll cut to 1 or less and turn the cat on.

We used to have a stove that seemed to like to give back puffing and some can be pretty violent. One stove was a cabinet stove and it was so violent that it caused the door of the cabinet to open and really stunk up the house. With the Fireview we have had exactly one back puff but it was extremely mild. Just a little smoke smell in the house.

Hope you've settled down Terry! I'll bet you slept lightly.

I usually follow the manual and open the draft full and dis-engage the cat, load the wood, close the door, leave the draft at full and leave the cat in bypass. After the new load is fully involved, I'll re-engage the cat and cut the air to 1.0 to 1.5 and then in five or so, cut it to 1.0. Maybe I'm not doing the right thing, but that's it. If y'all have a better procedure please advise.

And, sleep lightly? YES, I did! AND I have the fire extinguisher handy, too! :red:

 

[rottiman]

Just a "backpuff" sometimes called "woofing". Not enough heat or oxygen to ignite gases coming off the wood and all of a sudden they catch a lick of flame or pull air down the chimney and ignite all at once and since the firebox is full of gases at that point they explode all at once. Keep that sucker burning. Get it to cat temp with flames on the wood and then engage the cat to burn those gases.

Fun to hear in a stove with a flex liner because it "crinkles" all the way up the pipe when it happens. When it happens because you open the door and the air rushes in you lose a few eyebrows.

So, I don't have a defective stove? Just a defective operator? I'll for sure not do THAT again! That was far more agressive than mere puffing or woofing in my book and not anywhere near an "entertainment" grade experience. I don't know how long it will take for my heart to settle down!

And I thought you "TEXAS" boys were tough of heart..........................................

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Terry, it just sounds to me as if you are having a too high of setting! You should be able to turn that thing down below 1. If you are going 1 to 1.5 for 5 minutes or so, I'd try it at .75 or even at .5 You might be amazed to find that the flame increases at first but then will settle back down. That method seems to be where we get a good burn although we do decrease our draft even further but each install can be a tad different. But I would highly suggest you try it below 1 for sure.

 

[rickw]

I've had a couple stout backpuffs, enough to loosen the door latch. Lift the lid? - Holy Crap! I'd say the situation to avoid is one of no flame and lots of combustible gas. I'd suggest in general to keep the air more open until some flame is visible, then throttle it down to maybe 1 to 1.5 until the cat is up to operating temp - then down to whatever you run at when you engage the cat. Maybe when reloading leave the door cracked open until some flame is visible; or might could keep an "instant on" propane torch handy to light off a load that is just not quite ready to actually flame (keep the torch a few feet from the stove of course). More air through the firebox should help flush out the combustible gases. Short answer - if no flame visible, turn up the air.

Is the Woodstock somehow more prone to this? I don't think so, it has nothing to do with the cat, just the reload situation where the fresh wood is boiling out combustible gas but no flame yet. The "smoldering" condition seems sometimes oxygen starved, its hard to touch off a load in that state with a match because its smothered so fast. Backflash, anyone? The hinged top is a built-in explosion panel, actually.

Once the cat is engaged it should not happen - as the hot cat would not allow the buildup. You just got a near stoichiometric (ideal) gas mixture of "producer" gas and air, which can make quite an explosion. An entertaining example of this (if you're looking to scare the hell out the neighbors) is to fill up a quart ziploc bag with oxygen and acetylene and touch it off (OUTdoors, use a gas trail as a fuse, don't hold it for gods sake) - it can be a pretty amazing bang, M80 grade easily.

On the topic of stovetop temp I did turn the darn thing all the way down (closed the air all the way) when trying to run low and slow; the stove took off with beautiful rolling flames and near 600 deg stovetop temp. Must have lucked into some real dry wood. Pretty much what Dennis has been saying all along. So this year I'm starting some "drying" woodpiles that will dry for a year or two before going into my easily accessible, 2 yr capacity covered racks. As always, MORE WOOD!

 

[Slow1]

FYI - I have had some backpuffs with the cat engaged. They happened pretty early in the season and I have not had a repeat. They were mild and of the "choo choo" variety - every 30-60 seconds it was poof - short flame - no flame - repeat cycle. This was about 2 hours after engaging the cat. Very strange situation. I called WS on the situation and they went through the general troubleshooting tips with me, usual house pressure etc. Only thing that I could conclude was that perhaps I wasn't drawing well enough for the situation as the flue cooled down. Outside temp was in the 40's (early shoulder season) and it was a light load so surface temp was something like 350-400 with flue below 200. I added about 3ft of chimney just in case (some of you may recall my thread on that topic). Then it got colder, I started heating the flue more before engaging and... so who knows what actually has kept it from happening for me. However, the point is that it is possible to puff with cat engaged.

My old stove would puff like crazy in some situations - the top loading lid would pop up and clang down at times if I didn't have the water pot on top. Not a fun experience and the smoke was never fun to smell in the house. I doubt there is a stove out there that is puff proof.