5 inch liner?

[ridelkagrl]

Any thoughts on possible problems of keeping the existing 5 inch liner in my chimney? Must be ancient but we pulled it out and it looks to be in good shape. No stove in the house when we purchased it. Fireplace/chimney in center of house. Looking to purchase a stove with a 6 inch intake: Hearthstone Homestead, Hearthstone Morgan insert, VC Intrepid II, VC Resolute Acclaim, Regency i2400 or VC medium insert.

Thanks for your help.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

You dont want to neck down the liner from the size of the flue collar of the stove your purchase, it wont draft properly, and could overheat the chimney. Also most stove manufactures produce manuals that state the minimum and maximum chinmey sizes, of you deviate from that you will have a problem with your home owners insurance.

 

[BrotherBart]

Definately not worth it since you are going to have to put it back anyway since you pulled it. I don't know how tall the chimney is but 20 foot liners are available on eBay for between three and four hundred bucks. And the two I bought ended up coming from major vendors. The size stoves you are looking at need that six inch liner to breathe, much less pass inspection and the insurance company.

 

[webbie]

Any thoughts on possible problems of keeping the existing 5 inch liner in my chimney? Must be ancient but we pulled it out and it looks to be in good shape. No stove in the house when we purchased it. Fireplace/chimney in center of house. Looking to purchase a stove with a 6 inch intake: Hearthstone Homestead, Hearthstone Morgan insert, VC Intrepid II, VC Resolute Acclaim, Regency i2400 or VC medium insert.

Thanks for your help.

Smaller stove such as Jotul 602 and possibly Intrepid would probably work well with it. The same 602 model has a 4.7" flue in Europe.

Main thing is not to have a big loading door. Even the new larger Jotul (black bear) - model has less than a 5 in Europe....same with all the morso box stoves.

So, typical insert or large double door stove....no.
Small or mid stove with small load door.....might do.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Craig, i think the US manuals for Jotul still spec out a 6" liner, even though they will work on a much smaller metric deminsion. Its all in the techicalites, im not shure if elk would pass it. If my stamp was on the line, i would not sign off.

 

[seaken]

Any thoughts on possible problems of keeping the existing 5 inch liner in my chimney? Must be ancient but we pulled it out and it looks to be in good shape. No stove in the house when we purchased it. Fireplace/chimney in center of house. Looking to purchase a stove with a 6 inch intake: Hearthstone Homestead, Hearthstone Morgan insert, VC Intrepid II, VC Resolute Acclaim, Regency i2400 or VC medium insert.

Thanks for your help.

None of the stoves you mention directly support the 5" size. Morso does work with a 5" liner but is sold in the US with a collar adapter for 6" pipe. At any rate, if you want to go by the book the 5" size won't work for any modern wood stove. That liner may have been left over from a coal stove, many of which used 5" pipe. I would suggest that you invest in a new 6" liner. If it was used for a coal stove it may not have full life left. Coal exhaust is corrosive to metal.

Sean

 

[webbie]

Craig, i think the US manuals for Jotul still spec out a 6" liner, even though they will work on a much smaller metric deminsion. Its all in the techicalites, im not shure if elk would pass it. If my stamp was on the line, i would not sign off.

I'm speaking to operation, not code. The 6" was put on that stove ONLY to make it easier for US installers since 5" is uncommon (especially in insulated) in the US.

In past times, those stove actually came delivered with the 4.7 takeoff, but had a sheet metal or cast adapter inside. This is one of those issues that calls for some common sense.

Chances are a 5 will not do anyway, as the customer seems to have their heart set on a either a bigger stove or larger doors.

In terms of technical information, consider that an Encore or larger Avalon with 3 Ft + cublic foot firebox is OK with a 6". Now consider a firebox of well less than 1/2 the size. A 5" chimney has 64% of the capacity of a 6 inch chimney....

Of course, this does not consider all the flexible 5.5" liners which are installed by the hundreds and have an effective size of a little over 5".

Based on this evidence, I would suggest a smaller stove would draft fine in this chimney assuming it had a minimum height of 20 feet or so.

Oh, yes, Morso is another one that would probably work. You might even be able to get a note from their tech department saying so (note: only the smaller models or box morso)

 

[webbie]

Of course, going further we can speculate that certain stoves work better with a 5 because it is not oversized! For instance, many people would say it would be great to install the small Jotul into a 8" insulated chimney with an increaser, but considering that the stove design was for a 4.7, that would be putting the flue into a chimney 250% larger than it needs, a sure recipe for cooling of smoke.

 

[Todd]

I think I remember someone stating the btu ratings of different sized liners, but can't remember what they exactly were. What is the exhaust btu rating of 5"? Probably way over what any wood stove can produce?

This is another one of those, it will work, but if you want insurance you better go with code.

 

[ridelkagrl]

Thanks for all of your feedback. This forum is such a great resource!
The insurance issue scares me. I think it might be best to go with a less expensive stove and put that money towards a new 6 inch liner. Thanks again for your help.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Yes it would work, but its alot like oversizing. Undersizing is like bottlenecking, You have more volume of exaust then the chimney is able to handle. Oversizing is just the oppisit ofcourse, but the result can be the same. Smokey rooms, poor draft, etc. What the webmaster is saying. that alot of the euro stoves are 5 inch. And they would worke fine. But the problem, like you pointed out, it will work, but you wont be compliant with the manufatures stated installation.

 

[webbie]

I think I remember someone stating the btu ratings of different sized liners, but can't remember what they exactly were. What is the exhaust btu rating of 5"? Probably way over what any wood stove can produce?

This is another one of those, it will work, but if you want insurance you better go with code.

Not any......but many.

I think a 6" of 25 foot height handles about 125,000 BTU

Which means a 5" of the same height would be about 90,000 BTU......probably double what a small stove could put out and 4-5x what it puts out in normal operation.

Just as Elk says that he has never seen a masonry chimney that is built to code, I also have probably never seen a stove that meets every single requirement in the manufacturers manual, the chimney manual, the NFPA and the IBC.......many times they contradict each other.

That is in some ways the whole reason for this web site. If the information in manuals and codes and standards was very clear and simple...well, we wouldn't have thousands of questions here.

While it is very easy to answer every questions with "check the code, check with insurance and check the manual", that would only require us to have a one page website. I am reminded of this when talking to sweeps and installers....seems as if EVERY job is custom and requires thought and interpretation.

Example: you put three screws in the pipe, but they are not at the perfecf 1/3 of the way around each!

Ever notice that a policeman can stop any car and usually find SOMETHING.

Although we are all in different situations, I try to look at these questions based on two things:
1. My experience in the field.
2. The question of whether I would do the same thing myself....in my own home.

 

[Shane]

#2 is the rule of thumb I try to always apply. That exact statement has profound effect on people sometimes. Experience is key as well. I've found that in many situations sitting down with the AHJ and presenting your case to them in situations where you hit a gray area etc. is helpful and many times they see it the same way you do. Ultimately they are the final word on what's what in your area.

 

[BrotherBart]

This discussion harkens back to one here last season about ovalized liners and cross sectional area. It was one of the reasons I went with a 5.5 in my second flue. I am convinced that it will provide superior volumetric efficiency over ovalizing a six inch to get it down the chimney.