A beginner's questions

[NYEDGE]

You mentioned: "So in order to deliver heat to both zones from one furnace/boiler, I think I would need either a shared plenum with a damper system (to preserve the separate heating zones) and basically run air ducts through my access to the crawl space" and you also mentioned storage with a gasifier.

I have to agree with Frozen Canuck. If you truly want to have a gasifier and get the most out of the burn cycle, storage is a must.
That being said, your current boiler would have to be changed out and install air handlers with a coil for the hot water to flow through.

That being said, I would definitely take the time and extra $ to do the insulation upgrades now.

 

[Acey]

Ok, thanks guys for the encouragement about the insulation. I get it. We're already going to do some blowing in what I call the rec room, where the drywall is not in place. Removing the drywall where it's already up seems to be a last resort, so let me run this one by you. And I'm sure this is no original idea, but I just haven't seen the systems for blowing in cellulose or foam, so I don't know what they need.

Would I be able to just cut a strip of say 6" inches along the top of these walls and under windows, and blow in the insulation successfully that way? Seems like the cost to do that would be little more than the cost of the insulation itself. I'll probably have quite a bit of scrap drywall from the rest of the house, and a few extra boards here or there would be very reasonable. Maybe it wouldn't even have to be that large of a strip. Either way, looks like I need to spend some time pricing out (probably foam) insulation. But I really want to move on to the boilers!!

As for the question of why there is so little insulation to begin with, I have to say that there are several things about this house that have me scratching my head. The house seems to have been begun in either 1999 or 2000, and here we are today with most of the house left to go. I don't know what code was 10-12 years ago, but it won't meet it now, and we need to improve the overall efficiency to meet Michigan's new standards. Code aside, I don't understand why someone would WANT to build a home like this only to pour so much money into heating over the years. I need to solve the problem. THAT is my quest.

Now for some breakfast....

Acey

 

[Kawliga]

Frozen Canuck, Heaterman and others are 100% on track here...

Dont even think about your heating system at this stage....Insulate while you can.

In addition, Frozen Canuck suggestion to do radiant in floor is a good one....you can lay pex and pour gypcrete or light weight concrete over your existing subfloors...check you structural design to see what can work....We used Gypcrete on our 4000 sq ft home and in our shop in the CIP concrete slab.....really we could not be happier with this type of system....we heat 100% with wood, 10 full cord or less and use maybe only $100.00 worth of oil a year...

Mike

 

[sdrobertson]

As for the question of why there is so little insulation to begin with, I have to say that there are several things about this house that have me scratching my head. The house seems to have been begun in either 1999 or 2000, and here we are today with most of the house left to go. I don't know what code was 10-12 years ago, but it won't meet it now, and we need to improve the overall efficiency to meet Michigan's new standards.
Acey

I believe you said that your coming up here from Kentucky. Welcome to Michigan. Your seeing the results of quite a few houses that were (are) being built this way over time. Allot of houses were started during the manufacturing boom of the auto industry as second homes and built using money from working seven days a week. This left little time to actually build the house by themselves, so it takes years (if ever) to complete.

I agree with the insulation being first....its not nearly as sexy as getting right to the boiler, but it will make you happier in the long run and allot easier also.

 

[Fred61]

Blowing cellulose insulation on top of bats doesn't sound like a good idea to me. The fiberglass wouldn't allow for good flow of the cellulose and probably leave the far reaches void of any insulation. You could have a vapor barrier problem also. Even if you were able to distribute the cellulose well, you would still only have 3.5 inches of insulation.

Removing small strips and then replacing them isn't that easy either. You still need to replace them and tape & mud. If you removed the sheetrock from the entire wall, applied polyiso sheets to the studs and applied new sheetrock it wouldn't be any more work. You'll have the cost of replacing the sheetrock and the disposal of the old. Over my lifetime I've applied alot of tape and mud and if given a choice I would rather finish full sheets of newly applied sheetrock than patch in small openings. I'll bet I can do it faster too.

 

[woodsmaster]

No you can't cut holes in the top of the bays to add insulation. The way you put cellulose in new construction is to blow it in wet and it sticks to the wood. you then bush off any excess with a power attachment for a drill. What you reall need for those skinny walls is foam. Foam has a better r value than cellouse and fiberglass / inch. Or you need more insulation inside or outside the walls.

 

[heaterman]

Acey, once you get the insulation thing figured out, heating the place with a wood boiler will be no big deal.

Starting with the boiler I would run one main line into the house (the diameter of which depends on the heating load...insulation again)

At that point you can make a loop out of it and use a circulator specific to just that portion of the piping, or possibly depending on length you could simply terminate the supply as a "manifold" and from there run a separate line with the attendant circ to each furnace. How it's controlled will be dictated to a certain extent by the control on your furnaces. From the furnace coils you would just run back to a return manifold and back to the boiler. The circs in this scenario would have to be sized right but it would save you one at least.

I too would recommend storage for your system, probably at minimum 500 gallons and 1,000 would be better especially if you can't do much with the insulation problem.

 

[711mhw]

Acey, Bro, 3 1/2 inches of Fiberglass, ceeluose, bluejeans,and anything BUT closed cell foam, won't cut it. Theyr rated "R" values drop like a rock with air moving within the wall cavity and not being sure of the sheathing/housewrap job on tour new home, I'm sure that there will be lots of air moving around and thru your framing. My last house an old farmhouse, that I Tyvek'ed and taped the SSSSSS#IT out of it and the Ladybugs still get in, how I don't know. Your issue is the lack of space in your wall for insulation. Check it out for your self but I think that of the 3 or so "foams" the yellowish Polyiso.... has about a 6.5 "R"per inch, the Dow type, I think called EPS is about "R" 5 per inch down to the white EXP ? is at about r3/inch. I have found a *supplier that sells used foam insulation, I have bought 1 1/2 ISO 4
x8 for about $9/sheet. Just get a pile and start ripping them down to 14 1/2" stuff it in can foam the edges. As others have said wether you or a contractor does it, It's prolly cheaper and better results starting back with full sheets. Good luck man.

*Google The Insulation Depot. They seem to have warehouses around the country.

 

[Acey]

Thanks again, all. Very good and helpful advice. I've got my homework cut out for me, but it's not the subject I was planning on. To those of you who mentioned a spike in oil prices, I agree with you. As I watch the news today, that day may be nearer than any of us think. With all of this talk of insulation, I still really look forward to getting off of fossil fuels for the house.

From looking at insulation I agree that closed cell foam looks to have the best R-value per inch. Now I need to do the work of quantifying how much heat loss such a change could help with against how much it will cost to do it. Fun with numbers!

You're a helpful bunch, thanks.

Acey

 

[Fred61]

Recalling my suggestion in a post above, use foam sheets in addition to, not instead of the fiberglass insulation.