A case of bad draft or wrong stove size

[cbshtr]

I'm in a dilemma and am looking for some help, not knowing any experts in the area. We have a drafty 55 year old 24 x 40 rancher that we are trying to heat from the basement with an outside lined masonary chimney. Total chimney rise is 26 to 27 feet with a total length of about 30 feet. This puts it within code for roof clearence. For the prior 3 years I used a Century Hearth stove that was rated for up to 1000 square feet with good results using about 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 cords per year. Other than the small firebox our only complaint was that once the temperatures dropped below 30 degrees the stove could no longer keep the house warm. Seeing where oil prices were going I bought a Napoleon 1400 PL last spring and sold the Century. With the 1400 PL being twice the size of the Century I am confused and disappointed with the results. I am burning twice the wood and gaining almost no heat increase on either floor. The stove does not maintain a high temperature very long and always has 2 to 3 inches of hot coals that are hard to burn up. This was not a big problem with the Century. I'm thinking it is a draft problem since the stove has to be ran with the damper wide open in order to maintain 200 to 300 degrees except when first fully loaded. Forget trying to burn 4 to 6 inch rounds. Putting an interior chimney or moving the stove to the main floor is financially impossible at this time. Would going back to a smaller firebox stove be more efficient since the chimney apparently cannot draft the bigger stove? I feel like I'm wasting too much time and energy prepping wood and not getting the heat I want in return. I'm open to any suggestions.

 

[bluefrier]

Are you burning the same wood from the century stove? If not it could be under-seasoned wood. Also, check the baffles
at the top of your stove and make sure they are in place (if not they could restrict your draft).

 

[begreen]

I'm thinking the stove needs to be in the living space where the heat is required and not in the basement. Or maybe migrate down to the basement for the winter. That's what our ancestors frequently did.

 

[Pagey]

Please take a moment to read this article: http://www.woodstove.com/pages/basement_install.html

It will help to explain why most basement installations behave the way they do.

 

[cbshtr]

I appreciate the comments and even printed up some of the links. I wish I had known about those sites before I bought my stove knowing now that it wouldn't give me any more heat. I need a new roof on the house so I am thinking that I may be able to get a stove in the living room if I can work out the finances. In the mean time I have a Franklin Stove model Scandia at a mobile home in the mountains. It has a 5 inch flue with a secondary chamber. Does anyone think that this would be more efficient than the Napoleon 1400 PL that I am now using? I'm just thinking it may draft better since it has a smaller box, but i may be wrong. The stove keeps us pretty warm for the freezing temperatures up there. It is located in a shed addition with no insulation and is very drafty. I'm just thinking if I have to use two stoves I might as well use what I already have. Any thoughts?

 

[gyrfalcon]

I appreciate the comments and even printed up some of the links. I wish I had known about those sites before I bought my stove knowing now that it wouldn't give me any more heat. I need a new roof on the house so I am thinking that I may be able to get a stove in the living room if I can work out the finances. In the mean time I have a Franklin Stove model Scandia at a mobile home in the mountains. It has a 5 inch flue with a secondary chamber. Does anyone think that this would be more efficient than the Napoleon 1400 PL that I am now using? I'm just thinking it may draft better since it has a smaller box, but i may be wrong. The stove keeps us pretty warm for the freezing temperatures up there. It is located in a shed addition with no insulation and is very drafty. I'm just thinking if I have to use two stoves I might as well use what I already have. Any thoughts?

Seems to me that putting the stove in the living room with an interior flue going out through the wall to the chimney at ceiling height would make things better for you in terms both of draft and getting better benefit from the heat your stove does put out. I had to have a second chimney put in for my stove (class A metalbestos, not masonry), and my flue hooks up with the chimney that way, and it draws like a peach. Cost me about $3,000 for the new chimney, the flue, and having the stove hooked up to it, but I'm in Vermont and it would probably cost you half again as much in labor in NJ unless you can DIY, which the experienced folks here can help guide you through.

 

[Todd]

When was the last time your chimney was cleaned? Is there a chimney cap on top, it may be getting clogged and reducing your draft?

 

[BrotherBart]

Let's address why this stove isn't heating better than the smaller one. Describe how you start it up, run the first load and how you reload and burn that load.

 

[cbshtr]

When I first start it up I try to pack it full and get it up to about 500 degrees and stabilize it. The problem is it won't stay hot that long and when it is 30 degrees or colder our main floor starts to cool down so it seems we are always loading the stove to get it above 300 degrees. The problem is I can't get the coals to burn up. Even with the damper wide open they don't burn down enough but at the same time I'm only getting about 200 degrees with them which does nothing to warm the house. I know you are suppose to let the wood do a complete cycle but if I did that I might as well not even use the stove because my oil burner would then be maintaining temperature. I'm starting to do some research to see if a stove on the main floor would be practicle and possible within our finances. I know that would be the best situation but I still need to heat the basement because I have kids sleeping down there. This is why I was wondering if the Franklin Stove Scandia (5 inch flue) would work with the 6 inch chimney. I would use the Scandia to heat the basement overnight and a good 1000 to 1500 square foot stove on the main floor. I know with the stove on the main floor we would be able to keep up with the damper as the fire dies down.

 

[Todd]

When you reload rake the coals forward towards the glass and load. This will help burn down the coals since most of the air comes in the front. Also tweak the air up as the temp starts to fall, this will keep the temp up longer.

The Franklin may not be UL approved and be illegal to install? Besides the Scandia's have been reported by many here not to be the safest stoves out there due to cheap Chinese casting.

 

[northwinds]

When I first start it up I try to pack it full and get it up to about 500 degrees and stabilize it. The problem is it won't stay hot that long and when it is 30 degrees or colder our main floor starts to cool down so it seems we are always loading the stove to get it above 300 degrees. The problem is I can't get the coals to burn up. Even with the damper wide open they don't burn down enough but at the same time I'm only getting about 200 degrees with them which does nothing to warm the house. I know you are suppose to let the wood do a complete cycle but if I did that I might as well not even use the stove because my oil burner would then be maintaining temperature. I'm starting to do some research to see if a stove on the main floor would be practicle and possible within our finances. I know that would be the best situation but I still need to heat the basement because I have kids sleeping down there. This is why I was wondering if the Franklin Stove Scandia (5 inch flue) would work with the 6 inch chimney. I would use the Scandia to heat the basement overnight and a good 1000 to 1500 square foot stove on the main floor. I know with the stove on the main floor we would be able to keep up with the damper as the fire dies down.

I'm not familiar with your stove, but I know that my stove doesn't run as well at 500 peak temperature. I get better performance, secondary burn,
and coal burn-up if I'm running between 600-700. I'm also better off cutting the air in half-way increments, which allows the stove to increase
in temperature and stabilize in that 600-700 range. It sounds to me like you might be cutting your air down too early or too fast. With higher
operating temps, your house may get warmer so that you won't be tempted to reload before letting the wood completely cycle.

 

[gpcollen1]

You need to follow the line of questioning from BB. It appears that if you are not getting heat out of that thing, it is due to operator error - whether the wood is not completely seasoned or you are not really filling the firebox or not closing the sire down on the right cues. In general, you need to get the stove hotter than 500 for sure. Read the manual for the max temps you should allow. If your wood is not completely seasoned, split some pieces smaller to get them to burn hotter and faster.

You can check some thread regarding not getting enough heat from stoves - it is usually an operation thing.

Do you have a liner running up that chimney?

 

[begreen]

From the reports we get here on the Napoleon I would have to agree. The stove usually likes to run hotter, more in the 500-650 range with a fully engaged fresh load of wood. One thing to try is to keep some cut up palette wood or scrap lumber cutoffs around. Unfinished wood flooring scraps are also excellent. Put a few (not a whole lot) of them on top of the hot coals and let them burn down with the coals. That will help keep temps up a bit while burning down the coals.

 

[cbshtr]

I contacted Napoleon about dropping my chimney size down to 5". My reasoning is that with a 5" liner in my masonary chimney I would have enough to either insulate the liner or even drop 5" insulated double wall chimney down. My thought is that will help keep my chimney warmer and hopefully keep a better draft going through the stove. He said in Ontario it is legal to go up or down 1" in size from stove outlet. He also said it should work. Has anyone ever had any experience going down 1" in chimney size? If so, were you successful or did it cause more problems? I'm curious to find out since the weather has warmed up a little the past few days and now is the time to work outside. If this does work should I take 5" all the way down to the stove or make the transition once I go through the thimble? Thanks

 

[precaud]

My X33 is on a 5" liner. Works great.

 

[Todd]

They also sell 5.5" liners, I have one and draft is great.