A fiberglass tank to consider

[Bob Rohr]

It looks like Haase has finally set up shop in the US. I have seen this tank for many years in Europe. They have some You Tube of an actual install.

I'm not sure about the price, I hear Apricus Solar has a lock on US distributorship.

(broken link removed)

hr

 

[chuck172]

They look expensive, at least they will give STSS some competition. SS heat exchangers. Wow!

 

[Burn-1]

I posted the links to the Youtube videos in this thread back in May.

I don't know if Apricus has the lock. The tank videos mention Apricus but I sent an email to Kai Haase, who I think is based out of Atlanta and he was pretty helpful with some information, although our discussion did not extend to pricing. But, there was no mention of Apricus.

 

[deerefanatic]

Yah, fiberglass is good stuff..... What I'm waiting for is a pressurized steel tank that is glass-lined..... That'd be the ticket.... No heat exchangers, strong, durable, etc....... Without the big $$ of STSS..........

 

[chuck172]

I think this whole topic of storage will be decided in the near future. If you have noticed, there is more discussion and confusion on storage- tanks, piping, theory than on any other aspect of wood boilers.
I understand smaller pressurized tanks are the norm in Europe where they are ahead of us in this field.

 

[Bob Rohr]

Exactly, Chuck! I rarely see more then 250-350 gallons used a storage or buffer in European boiler system.

Maybe because they have access to more sizes of boilers and size closer to the load?

Maybe someone is home all day to keep them fired properly?

Or they realize bigger is not always better, especially when you start considering expansion vessel, sheer size of the tank, insulation issues, logistics of installation, etc.

The huge tanks I do see over there are typically storage for huge solar thermal arrays. Large, pressurized, insulated storage gets to be an expensive hobby.

I started with a 184 LP tank, but upsized to a 500 when a deal came along. 500 gallons will buy me an 8 hr period at design temperature. I have lp backup so I never come home to a cold building.

You need to draw a line somewhere on thermal storage, run some numbers to see where it makes sense for you. 500, maybe 1000 in some cases should be plenty, unless you are trying to prove a point.

One Swiss firm drops about 15,000 gallon tanks below the building with the goal of 90% plus solar DHW and heat fraction. It is possible, but at some point you start to scratch your head and question the goal :0

If your boiler can keep up with the load on a design day, and still have the capacity to start charging a buffer tank, that tells me it is oversized for the job. Sort of like driving your car with the throttle wide open and using your breaks to control your speed??

Seems like we take proven successful Euro designs and equipment and then try to Americanize them into doing something other than the design intent??

hr

 

[pybyr]

interesting product !- please share any info anyone has on pricing and availability

HR, regarding your comments on variations between Euro and US implementations, I suppose one difference is that climate in northern portions of N. America is more like Scandanavia than a more moderate "average Euro" climate, which seems to suggest that bigger storage than used in moderate areas of Europe may have a rational basis here? Also, from everything I understand, average area of living space here is larger than in Europe (even when comparing "normal" USA dwellings and not accounting for this country's recent wacky trends like McMansions). Just thinking out loud that there may be something going on here that isn't necessarily limited to US' folks tendency to assume that bigger is always better.

 

[Bob Rohr]

Yah, fiberglass is good stuff..... What I'm waiting for is a pressurized steel tank that is glass-lined..... That'd be the ticket.... No heat exchangers, strong, durable, etc....... Without the big $$ of STSS..........

I visited the Lochinvar plant in TN last fall. They claim to have the largest tank oven in the country, 4.5 million BTU/ hr burners!. They build huge glass lined steel tanks down there, 2500 gallons as bare or insulated versions.

www.lochinvar.com for a look at their production facility.

hr

 

[twofer]

Personally I don't think that planning for a considerable amount of storage is really all that bad of a proposition. All that I would like to accomplish is the ability to get 12-24 hours between burns so that my schedule is more flexible and the propane furnace doesn't kick on. I don't know about you guys but when I hear a furnace kick on I cringe.

 

[chuck172]

I don't know if us here in America buy bigger unnecessarily. Tarm is manufactured in Denmark. Sold around the world. The solo model comes in 3 sizes each with their recommended size storage tank.
Solo40-100,000btu's-600gallons
Solo30-140,000btu's-800gallons
Solo60-198,000btu's-950gallons

I'm sure Tarms size recommendations hold true all over.

 

[chuck172]

I just spoke with someone from Sweden on a forestry forum; His name is Hansson.
Interesting, especially if I knew what he is talking about!
I invited him to come over to this forum.
Check out one of his links:
http://www.termoventiler.se/default.asp?webb_ID=110&webbsida_ID=56&u1_ID=189&u2_ID=190

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck172 View Post (forestry forum)
Hansson, I have a Tarm wood boiler made in Sweden. Just curious, How big storage tanks do you and your neighbors use with wood boilers.? Are they pressurized or do you use heat exchangers?
Hello (Hansson's reply)
Tarm boilers are now made in Denmark.The baxi grop buy the company Perifal pannan that was Swedish.

I have 2 1000L storage tanks. They are pressurized.
I have one 150L tank in the top of the house that keep the pressure at 0.6bar
For the water that you take a shower in i have 2 pipes that are in one of the storage tanks.They are 15 metres in length each .
One in the bottom of the tank and one in the top.

The one in the bottom preheats the whater that are coming in to the system.

2000L is to little to my boiler.In the summer i cant fill the fire space to its maximum. 2500L would be fine.

The ordinary size of storage tanks in sweden is 1500L-2000 litre I think.
But that is starting to change.
People are going for bigger tanks.
My friend have a storge tank thats is 6000L

Sorry for my bad English

 

[pybyr]

I e-mailed and left a phone message at Haase USA earlier today to try to get more details on these tanks (and the cost); got a brief e-mail from Kai Haase saying he's in Germany at the factory but that he'd get back to me.

 

[chuck172]

I have a feeling that we are just scratching the surface of this wood-burning gassification boiler technology here in America. Soon we will have many developments from overseas. Many are being used and considered commonplace over there.
One example:http://www.termoventiler.se/default.asp?webb_ID=110&webbsida_ID=71

 

[pybyr]

interesting, Chuck- according to the site you reference, they recommend "10 liters per square meter of living space" as proper sizing for storage. If I am doing my math correctly (I try, but don't always succeed at that), converting liters to gallons and square meters to square feet, yields .264 gallon storage per square foot of living space-- which doesn't sound too different from what people here on Hearth seem to be reporting is where you start seeing good results (that figure yields 660 gallons for a 2500 sq ft house)

 

[pybyr]

Well-- after much chasing around about the availability & price of the Haase Energy Tank in the USA, I have some things to report, which are informative but not necessarily encouraging.

Haase Tanks USA referred me to Apricus (which indeed has exclusive distribution rights at this point in the USA) and then Apricus referred me to their nearest distributor, Maine Green Building, where Steve Konstantino was __very__ generous in sharing time and information (very candid, offered lots of info on pros and cons of various options- total opposite of a "hard sell"- I would turn to him again quickly if I needed something)

Haase tanks are probably not in-stock in the USA at this point; they're apparently shipped over from Europe as ordered.

Approximate pricing (this is the tank with its own internal stainless heat exchange coils), FOB at Apricus HQ in Connecticut (i.e. you still have to have it shipped from CT to your location): 730 gallon ~ $7,500 ; 940 gallon ~ $8.500 ; 1200 gallon ~ $9,500.

So- from all I managed to find out, the Haase tank appears to be a well-engineerd product, but it isn't looking like a financially-feasible option for me, at this point.

 

[HAASE]

Dear Trevor,

Hi everyone on this forum , just did a google search and found my name on here , so just to clear things up a bit...

Apricus USA has ONLY "exclusive distribution rights" for there Apricus dealers...so any Apricus Dealer/Installer will have to buy from Apricus USA ...we are very happy to
be with Apricus since there Dealer network will give Haase Tank USA a very large network very quickly.

So if you or anyone else would like to get a Info / Pricing etc. on a Haase Energy Tank please do contact us via (broken link removed) .

Greetings,

Kai Haase