A new Morso 3610

[sgsstat]

We are newbies in this forum, but have been wood burners for 27 years.

We currently are using a 1980-era Jotul 118 (great stove) and until a few weeks ago a 1980-era Upland 207. The Upland developed hairline cracks in the back cast iron. We had it welded once, but the cracks appeared again. We then placed boilerplate inside the stove, in front of the back panel and held to internal spindles, covering it almost entirely. The cracks expanded again (2 of them about 6"), so we decided to replace.

We live in Central NY -- and have fairly cold, but not always frigid winters. We easily heated 1700 sf upstairs with the Upland and 1000 sf in the insulated walk-out basement with the Jotul. Walls are R-19 and ceilings R-30 or higher. The house is reasonably tight. The dual-flue masonry chimney run is 25' from the upstairs and 32' from the basement. Draft has never been a problem.

We fully expected that with EPA rules, "new" stoves would be very different to operate. We also expected greater efficiency as a result of more clean burning.

In looking at replacements for the Upland, we considered the Jotul Oslo, Quadrafire Cumberland and Morso 3610. The Morso won and now we wonder if we lost... Unfortunately, it is impossible to know how a stove will perform until you bring it home and actually use it. We really didn't see any negative information about the 3610.

Comments on the following would be much appreciated:

1. We have found the 3610 fire starting more difficult than the 2 older stoves. A very large pile of kindling is necessary. The front door needs to be left ajar for 15 minutes at least. It is half and hour, minimum, to "get going" and a hour before there is real heating.

2. We are using more wood than the Upland required -- it seems the 3610 firebox needs a pretty full load to burn well. Is this a characteristic of "new" stove designs in general?

3. Loading almost always puts as least a little smoke into the room, even when the draft is shut down and all air is drawn from the door opening.

4. If we add wood to it during the night, we have to stay up at least half an hour to make sure it gets going, and then listen to it making all kinds of noises and finally readjust the main draft. The times we have added wood over night were such a hassle, we won't bother doing that anymore -- the choice is letting it burn out completely (and face the hassle of a cold start in the morning) or putting in a huge load overnight, which is feasible or desirable only on nights below 10F. Is this Morso-specific, or "new" stoves in general?

We are at the point wondering whether we should pull the old Upland apart and have the hairline cracks re-welded or possibly search out another type of fix. We burned it with the cracks for several years.

Any comments or advice or the Morso 3610 would be appreciated!

 

[Jfigliuolo]

what is the size of the flue you are dumping into? The Morso proably would like a smaller flue for a better draft than the older stove.

 

[babalu87]

If your getting smoke when you open the door the stove isnt the problem.

I run mine with half loads of wood all the time. If I have three splits that are all coaled up and glowing good I can re-load the firebox, damper the stove down and have plenty of red hot coals 8 hours later.

 

[swestall]

I agree with the Draft comment. When you change stoves, the draft that is needed changes as well. I also found this out the hard way. It seems some of the newer stoves need better draft to funciton. Usually, they are looking for an area equal to the output connector on the stove. So, if you have a 6 inch out, and an 8x12 flue: you have a problem. Less of a problem, when it is hot, but a problem still. A stainless liner will go a long way to resolving that problem. If you purchased that stove from a local dealer, you might ask them to come in for a consultation.
I am in the process of lining my masonary flue to get a better draft, for similar reasons. And, it should make it safer in the long run as well as easier to clean.

 

[Bill]

First off welcome to the forum, I have the same stove and don't have any of the issues you have. Please give us a description of your chimney ie. diameter, height, and location. I can get my stove hot in less than a half hour and get overnight burns, with 3 to 4" of coals in the morning. Is the wood your using dry and is it hard wood? Softer woods burn up faster.

I get my stove going and load it up with wood and char for 10 minuets and damper it down, with stove top temperatures of 500* to 600*, chimney temperatures of 400*. There is a definite learning curve with any new stove, but from your description it sounds like your not getting enough draft. Has your chimney and cap been cleaned lately?

 

[begreen]

welcome sgsstat. Don't despair, you bought a great stove. There is a learning curve to the new stove, but you have a good performer. Tell us about the flue on the stove. This is as important as the stove itself. I agree it sounds like there may be a mismatch here.

 

[G-rott]

3. Loading almost always puts as least a little smoke into the room, even when the draft is shut down and all air is drawn from the door opening.


I OPEN my draft for a few seconds before I open the doors, gets the smoke going up the flue. My stove burnt like a forge when I first installed it. Fire box hotter'n heck but less heat than expected into the room. I also was using a lot of wood.

I added an in-line damper and the stove temp went up stack temp and wood use went down.

Start new fires keeping the air induction in mind...Front to back in my stove.

Garett

 

[sgsstat]

what is the size of the flue you are dumping into? The Morso proably would like a smaller flue for a better draft than the older stove.

We have 8x8". The Upland had a 7" collar, the 3610 has 6". However the Jotul 118 in the basement has 5" collar into 8x8", but it has an extra 7' of run to the top of the chimney. Thanks!

 

[sgsstat]

If your getting smoke when you open the door the stove isnt the problem.

I run mine with half loads of wood all the time. If I have three splits that are all coaled up and glowing good I can re-load the firebox, damper the stove down and have plenty of red hot coals 8 hours later.

That is interesting -- your experience is giving me some encouragement! 3 splits is a typical load, except for the coldest days around here.

When you refer to "damper down" do you mean using an in line damper on the stove pipe or the primary air intake adjustment on the front of the stove?

Thanks!

 

[sgsstat]

First off welcome to the forum, I have the same stove and don't have any of the issues you have. Please give us a description of your chimney ie. diameter, height, and location. I can get my stove hot in less than a half hour and get overnight burns, with 3 to 4" of coals in the morning. Is the wood your using dry and is it hard wood? Softer woods burn up faster.

I get my stove going and load it up with wood and char for 10 minuets and damper it down, with stove top temperatures of 500* to 600*, chimney temperatures of 400*. There is a definite learning curve with any new stove, but from your description it sounds like your not getting enough draft. Has your chimney and cap been cleaned lately?

Flue 8x8 ceramic, 25' run to top of roof. Chimney is in center of house with about 8' exposure outside. Chimney is 4" solid block with brick facing. There is about 5' of stove pipe to get into the thimble, with a 90 degree elbow.

As I said above the Jotul downstairs has a 5" collar into the 8x8" flue, but has an additional 7' of run, so perhaps it just gets better draft.

We burn seasoned mainly maple and ash, no softwoods. Wood is outside covered storage on 3 sides.

I guess your are also emphasizing the learning curve!

 

[sgsstat]

3. Loading almost always puts as least a little smoke into the room, even when the draft is shut down and all air is drawn from the door opening.


I OPEN my draft for a few seconds before I open the doors, gets the smoke going up the flue. My stove burnt like a forge when I first installed it. Fire box hotter'n heck but less heat than expected into the room. I also was using a lot of wood.

I added an in-line damper and the stove temp went up stack temp and wood use went down.

Start new fires keeping the air induction in mind...Front to back in my stove.

Garett

Do you have the in line damper partially closed during starting and/or operation? We have one, but I have not experimented with it during operation.

On the 2 old stoves I never used the dampers unless things got too hot and I heard a bit of crackling of the creosote (probably 2-3 times in 27 years).

 

[Hogwildz]

First off welcome to the forum, I have the same stove and don't have any of the issues you have. Please give us a description of your chimney ie. diameter, height, and location. I can get my stove hot in less than a half hour and get overnight burns, with 3 to 4" of coals in the morning. Is the wood your using dry and is it hard wood? Softer woods burn up faster.

I get my stove going and load it up with wood and char for 10 minuets and damper it down, with stove top temperatures of 500* to 600*, chimney temperatures of 400*. There is a definite learning curve with any new stove, but from your description it sounds like your not getting enough draft. Has your chimney and cap been cleaned lately?

Flue 8x8 ceramic, 25' run to top of roof. Chimney is in center of house with about 8' exposure outside. Chimney is 4" solid block with brick facing. There is about 5' of stove pipe to get into the thimble, with a 90 degree elbow.

As I said above the Jotul downstairs has a 5" collar into the 8x8" flue, but has an additional 7' of run, so perhaps it just gets better draft.

We burn seasoned mainly maple and ash, no softwoods. Wood is outside covered storage on 3 sides.

I guess your are also emphasizing the learning curve!

5' is awefully long for the horizontal run. Is it pitched up towards the thimble at all? Check your manual, I think you might find if there is a maximum horizontal run listed, that 5' prolly exceeds that. Also its set up for 6" chimney, you have 8" & 7", that will also not help with draft. Put the extra exhaust area along with long horizontal pipe, the two just makes for a terrible draft. Remember, this stove is set up for smaller exhaust then your old smoke dragon. You don't put a tractor trailer exhaust on a Corvette.

 

[G-rott]

I open the draft on the stove and the in line damper for starting the stove, I then shut the in line damper down and control the burn with the draft.

I get the most heat with the secondary "ghost" flames rolling in the fire box over well charred wood on a heavy bed of coals.

Garett

 

[nshif]

So you have a direct connect to an 8x8 flue. you need a 6" liner to the top of the flue with a block off plate at the damper if you dont have one

 

[begreen]

I'm with Hog, first check the pitch of the horiz. run. You'll want 1/4" / foot rise on that pipe at a minimum.

 

[babalu87]

A 6" liner should help but that 5 foot run to the wall thimble has me puzzled.

Can you post some pics?

 

[sgsstat]

I should have clarified the 5' "run" of stove pipe... The stove sits in front of the chimney, with about 1' clearance. The thimble is 60" off the floor. It is a 2 flue chimney, so the thimble is off center. The top of the stove is 33" off the floor. There is a 2' straight length off the top of the stove (it contains an in-line damper). Next are a 1 full and 1 half adjustable elbows to line up with the thimble. Finally, a second 2' straight length enters the thimble and ends at the edge of the vertical flue. This is what I mean by 5' "run". About half of the 5' is actually "rise".

I tried uploading or attaching a JPG photo, but got a "mime" error.

We'll experiment with the in-line damper some more.

I could see installing a 6" stainless liner as a last resort. But the chimney is sound. The concern about the liner is cost, especially considering we had a serviceable non-EPA stove that worked well with the 8x8 flue.

My thinking is to experiment this season and see how we feel in April or May. If the 3610 remains a hassle (compared to the old stove), then we'll look at the chimney liner option or fixing the old stove. Some of the decision would be based on how much creosote we get -- a season with the 2 non-EPA stoves produces less than half a bucket in each flue.

Thanks all for your comments and advice. I really appreciate it! If you have any more words from the wise, post a reply! Thanks again!

 

[mayhem]

1. We have found the 3610 fire starting more difficult than the 2 older stoves. A very large pile of kindling is necessary. The front door needs to be left ajar for 15 minutes at least. It is half and hour, minimum, to "get going" and a hour before there is real heating.

Check into starting your fires top down. I was really quite pleasantly surprised at how well (and counter intuitively) it works. Put a couple splits on the bottom, medium sized on top of that, dry kindling above that and top with newspaper...light it and shut the side door so the latch touches the outside of the stove body (leaving the door open for the perfect starting air gap). Also I never, ever use the front door for anything except cleaning and looking at the fire through the glass. In my opinion if you opent hat door you're going to get a boatload of smoke in your house. I specificaly chose the 3610 because of the side door feature. The 3610 is a pretty big stove. There is alot of mass there to get warm (close to 500lb IIRC) and it should take some time. That said I'd say I'm getting enough heat out of mine within 30-40 minutes of stone cold startup to start feeling it...another 20 minutes before its making a significant difference in the house.

2. We are using more wood than the Upland required -- it seems the 3610 firebox needs a pretty full load to burn well. Is this a characteristic of "new" stove designs in general?

Once mine is running I cna load it with whatever I wish...the more I stuff in there the hotter it gets. When its in the 30s outside I tend to load 1 or 2 peices of wood at a time every hour or so to keep the stovetop around 300-350 (measured with a surface thermometer right in front of the collar). I usually run it wiht the primary air fully closed once its going good to maximize burn times...I only run primary air wide open when starting or of its getting chilly.

3. Loading almost always puts as least a little smoke into the room, even when the draft is shut down and all air is drawn from the door opening.

I have the exact same issue. I have not yet resolved this totally but have found that it can be minimized by opening the primary air fully for a 30-60 seconds before you open the latch and then opening it very slowly. The key seems to be opening it slowly enough that you feed in enough air to get the draft kicked back up a bit...using this I've gone from being concerned that my smoke detectors are going to go off on a daily basis and my wife opening windows to get the smell out to barely a wisp of smoke at all.

4. If we add wood to it during the night, we have to stay up at least half an hour to make sure it gets going, and then listen to it making all kinds of noises and finally readjust the main draft. The times we have added wood over night were such a hassle, we won't bother doing that anymore -- the choice is letting it burn out completely (and face the hassle of a cold start in the morning) or putting in a huge load overnight, which is feasible or desirable only on nights below 10F. Is this Morso-specific, or "new" stoves in general?

Can't speak for other stoves, but I find this is only semi true for the 3610. I just make sure I've got a good bed of coals, load it to the gills and shut it down fully for the night...7-8 hours later I've got a nice bed of coals waiting for my morning splits to crank it back up again. Its taken me awhile, but I've learned to trust the stove when I load it up. I used to load it up, wait for the wood to catch and then get up to a nice high temp and then shut downt he primary air control and go to bed...a 30 minute process. Now I just load it to the gills, bank it down and turn off the lights...even if its not appearing to run very well I find no wood and a decent bed of coals every single morning. I have not had any need to wake up in the middle of the night to add any wood...unless you sleep for 13 hours.

Any comments or advice or the Morso 3610 would be appreciated!

Overall I'm quite happy with my purchase. It looks good, the qualtiy appears to be there and now I've gotten into a better understanding of how it likes to be operated. My one real criticizm is ash control. Other 3610 owners have raved to me about the size of the ash pans and their remarkably high capacity...I persoanlly find the ashpan capacity to be ludicrously low and I really haven't figured out a way to clean this thing out without making a colossal mess yet. My last stove was a Dutchwest Federal which was fantastic in that it had a separate door for the ash pan below the firebox that I could very safely opena nd remove while the fire was burning hot, empty and replace wihtout any issues whatsoever...witht eh 3610 I have to stop feeding it a half day before I can even consider cleaning it out and then spend the next hour clenaing out the stove, sweeping up the mess it leaves on the floor, vacuuming up the inevitable pile of ash the pans leave inside the stove under the firebox (or risk eventually nto being able to put the pans back in) and the restarting it. I think I need more advice on other people's procedures or just some more experimentation. I've never lived with a stove before that I could only clean while cold...all other stoves in ym lifetime I've cleaned while it was going and have never had any issues.

All in all, a good stove that I can truly heat my whole house with. I think you just need some more time and experimentation to truly become one with your stove.

 

[Bill]

I have never had any smoke come out of mine while reloading. To take the ash out, I put my welder gloves on, pull the ash pan out, while I hold the top of my ash bucket upside down under the ash pan. I carry it outside and dump it in the ash bucket, and repeat for the other side. I don't often remove ash while hot, because this stove is in my cabin, so it's cold when I do it normally. I do notice that opening the front doors, some ash can drop on the hearth and make a mess. But that usually happens when I get this jumbo pile of coals that burns down and lays on the bottom of the front door.

I am burning some smaller splits I had for my previous stove, mostly black walnut, cherry, and misc. other not so great woods, so I am going through a lot of wood. I load it up at least 4 times per day, but it's been cold lately. It was 16* last weekend in the house when we got up there. So it takes quite a while to get the chill out of the house.