A new way to burn wood ?

[Robbie]

Most long time burners probably know this method already. There have been variations discussed here in the past.

I tried this method after my stove burped one night (spewing smoke out my pipe into my home). After I had already went to bed and dampered it to what I thought was a correct setting.

After 2 full seasons of burning you would think I knew where to set my damper......but this proves that different wood types etc. have a different affect on flame size and the amount of gas put off.

For this night I loaded 3 full splits, waited 20 minutes and then dampered.......then watched for another 15 minutes as per manuals instructions when a damper setting is changed.......all was perfect until 3 am.


By using this newly learned method the results for me so far have been a great improvement in specific areas of wood burning I think.

Positive results so far have been less wood used and much cleaner burning. No worries about over heating or temps too high.........just steady clean burns.

The down side "could" possibly mean you may have to load one extra time...maybe not if you don't mind restaring your fire in the morning......well worth the trouble to virtually eliminate dampering altogether.

My house has gone from 78 at bedtime to 72, 6 hours later.........not bad for one split and no dampering.

(an important note: try to get house temps up before bed time........you can then get optimum results from this method).

I realize dampering at night is the norm...(please don't try this until you test it out during the day time while your awake)......but my gas furnace has not kicked on once in the last two weeks (set at 70) and this seems to be so much less worry.

The key here is one split I think (hardwood), if I add two to mine I will have to damper within 20 minutes or so to keep stove from going over 600 degrees (my wood is very dry).

I realize 600 is a good temp to burn, but I prefer around 400 for an over night burn. Just check your stove temps after you damper at night and it's very likely your temps will be around this degree dampered........why not let it breath ?

Of course I must add that all stoves are different and it might take a few times of experimentation to determine the best results for you.

1. Make a good hot fire and let your stove get to the magic degree you think it should be for maximum heat output for your stove.

2. Make sure you have enough coals from this "warm up" cycle to light a decent size split or log.

3. Now add one decent size split............(important) only one, no more.

4. Make sure log or split is on top of a good portion of coals.

5. Do not damper or choke your stove down. Let this log or split do it's thing.

Here is what I have learned in two weeks of doing this. My one split will heat my entire home until morning without dampering my stove. My stove temps will stay in the optimal heating range using a stove thermometer. It usually will stay in the 400 degree range.........with a blower on low.........this is plenty to keep my house (1850 sq. ft.) until I reload (with one split) in the morning.
Here is how it works.

The stove "not being dampered" will allow the flames to heat the stove enough after it gets going. This is why the "optimum degree" needs to be reached when making your fire to begin with.

This is what you should imagine. You are getting the steam up in your stove for an over night burn, then letting it coast until morning by using one split to get the maximum heat output.......the end result is like coasting down a hill in a car low on gas so you can make the next hill without running out.........for me it works very well so far.

I now use this method all day too..........one split........never damper and blower on low to get the most heat into room.




Robbie

 

[Robbie]

I would like to add an update after using this "open damper" method of burning described above.

Heres what else I have learned about doing this.

I cleaned my pipe after 1 and 1/2 months of burning and got about 2 ounces of ultra light black dust.......thats it.

I just cleaned my chimney cap after over two months of using this method and all that was removed was fluffy black stuff......no more than an ounce....actually much less than that......no hard black chunks like before.

I ran my arm up into my pipe above the stove and there is nothing except very light powder..........no hard chunks like before.

I have used 9 % gas this year since early fall...........and about 1/2 the total wood I had used by this time last year............temps have been very similar too.

The only negatives are the fire does not last until morning....coals do.....and the heat blown out off my stove by the blower does........and gives me plenty of time to make another fire.

This method has made it a much more enjoyable experience because I can put one good chunk of wood on before bed and leave my blower on low.........I sleep much more relaxed.

Occasionally I wake up about 5 am to a vigorous flame burning the remainder of my oak split..........and giving max benefits from a non-dampered stove................no worries of over fire here.

Even my wife likes it much better...........don't misunderstand, this is not a magic trick or for everyone..........but it sure works well for me and I love the fact that my pipe is cleaner than it's ever been.

And unless the bottom drops out and it gets really super cold for many days I will probably use half the wood I used last year since I only load 1 split at night.

Oh yeah, dry wood is so very important here.




Robbie

 

[Cazimere]

Most long time burners probably know this method already. There have been variations discussed here in the past.

I tried this method after my stove burped one night (spewing smoke out my pipe into my home). After I had already went to bed and dampered it to what I thought was a correct setting.
Robbie

I don't understand. What do you mean your stove burped, spewing smoke into your home ?
Is your house air tight ? Explain please.

 

[stoncold]

e/w or n/s?

 

[Anji12305]

My Vermont Castings resolute will do the same, fully damped...

This has only happened twice, with the following necessary conditions;
The cast iron has reached optimal temperature (the gaskets are fully seated then)
The wind is blowing sufficiently to keep the outgoing smoke at equilibrium within the stack.

It's like a backfire in carburetted cars... one noisy PUFF and it's over.

I leave the damper open overnight, and let the coals run their course, too.

******

An open damper means that the path of least resistance is OUT of the house.

 

[whphel]

When you say damper are you refering to the top pully or the air flow at the bottom? Or are you opening the air fully and leaving the top open or both? I'm confused.

 

[begreen]

By the description, this sounds like a low draft flue. If I ran our stove wide open, all I'd be doing is wasting wood and having a short burn. But perhaps with a very big split this would work. What size splits are you using?

 

[rg500930]

hmmm thanks.ill have to give it a try.so what your saying is if you have 2 splits it burns hotter faster as we all know.but one split doesnt burn that good.but with the dampner wide open it gives the burn you like.its surprising for such a simple thing as burning it can get complicated

 

[Hubjeep]

I have tried this too, works well.

It is especially useful after burning smaller pieces that create an excessive red coal bed, the single big log at open draft turn the coals into ash and provides enough air flow to keep the large log burning, all while keeping stove temps at a normal level.

 

[whphel]

Does this not defeat the purpose of an epa efficient wood stove? Or am I miss understanding what you guys are doing?

 

[TruePatriot]

Robbie,

I appreciate your spirit of experimentation, to find the "sweet spot" in your stove's operation, and that you're sharing your results. Such is the path to innovation and progress, and obviously, others share your interest in more efficient burning and operation, as do I.

However, there seems to be more than a little confusion here--myself included--and no offense intended.

If I may, I'd like to suggest something that may clear some confusion up:

I think you may be confusing the terms "draft" and "damper."

When you say:

I realize dampering at night is the norm...

...don't you actually mean you are adjusting your stove's draft?

The "draft," (IMO) is the term used to refer to the valve or control that meters the incoming combustion air.

By contrast, a "damper" is a simple butterfly valve in the flue or exhaust stack leading up to your chimney. (Not going to get into the more complex "barometric dampers" here--lol). A damper is not a control on the stove, but rather, is on/in the flue.

My understanding is that most modern, EPA-compliant stoves do not require a flue damper (though I believe some manuals allow for the use of one, to combat an over-strong draft from a too-tall chimney).

Please let me know if I have this right, and you are in fact adjusting your stove's incoming air supply, via the "draft" control (located on the stove), and whether or not your flue actually has a "damper."

I'm not trying to be a "stickler" for vocabulary--it's just that I'm not smart enough to keep up with all the actual engineers and other "Big Brains" here as it is, and I have to try to at least keep my terms and definitions straight. :cheese:

Apologies to the assembled experts: if I've mistated anything here, I do apologize. I am simply trying to understand this post, by clarifying the terms as I understand them. Please correct any mistakes I've made, lest I further confuse anyone.

I will be traveling for a week or so, and will have no easy web access, so please do not mistake my absence for anything else. I will be interested to follow up on this thread when I return, as I am considering installing a damper in our flue, for a couple of reasons that may relate to your experience, if in fact you are using a (flue) damper.

 

[Hubjeep]

I took "dampening" as restricting air flow into the stove. Would dampening (the flu - correct usage) not do the same thing as adjusting the draft at the stove?

Does this not defeat the purpose of an epa efficient wood stove? Or am I miss understanding what you guys are doing?

What do EPA wood stoves do that opening the draft with a large log defeats?

 

[savageactor7]

^Good morning...EPA stoves reburn the smoke. It's true you can't see any smoke coming out of the chimney. btw I took the OP comment on 'dampening' as to adjust the temp cont for longest burn.

 

[tradergordo]

Sounds like something wrong with your stove or draft. One split in a stove doesn't burn well unless you already have a big coal bed, and even then its only going to burn the smoke if you are dampered down. It sounds like you are purposefully trying to create a smoldering log that burns all night. I don't believe that you see no smoke out the chimney - this is not possible in a situation with a long overnight burn on an undampered stove with a single log in it (don't get me wrong, I know you can burn undampered with no smoke, I demonstrate this in my everburn demo video series, but I don't think this is what you are doing). What kind of flue and stovetop temps do you have at the beginning, middle, and end of these burns? What is the typical outdoor temp?

 

[Cazimere]

I'm still curious about this "burping" thing. I've never experienced it and would like to know the cause.
Does it only happen if you have a damper ? And is that why newer stoves recommend no damper ?

 

[AndyD1480]

Yeah, i wonder if you could explain. If I leave it wide open and use one log, it'll burn super fast and send most of the heat up the chimney.

 

[jadm]

I found this site about two months ago and have learned quite a bit. One of my issues initially was with coal build up in my Napoleon 1101 that wouldn't burn down and that limited the amount of wood I could reload with. I have tried all the techniques I have read here but have never gotten anything like a 7 hour burn time out of one load.( I use dry hard woods and red oak splits.)

I have also found that one log at a time on top of a good coal bed works great. Don't know why but that has been my experience after all of the experimentation I have done. My first load is maybe 3 logs and I get my insert up to 550 and let it burn there for awhile. When the temp drops and the logs fall apart into coals after about 2 hours I add one log and keep the temp at 400 degrees. Depending on the room temp. I run my blower on high or low or completely off and use my ceiling fan only. The log burns well and so do the coals so I don't have the coal build up problem I had before.

When I have 3 logs burning I adjust the draft (adjust on insert not on stack ) down to 25 percent. When I have one log on I adjust the draft to 50 -75 percent open depending on coals and room temp. I just kind of eyeball it. I am home all day so I can adjust as needed.

Don't know why this works because it is contrary to all that I have read here about how to load an insert and burn effectively. My burns last longer. I have no smoke from my stack and, when cleaned, my liner is also pretty clean...

Glad to hear that I am not the only one doing it this way and getting better results....

 

[Robbie]

I am sorry I am so late in responding to these questions.


Caz you said, I don’t understand. What do you mean your stove burped, spewing smoke into your home ?
Is your house air tight ? Explain please.

My house is not air tight. When you load wood and it gets started burning and then you damper too soon, the oxygen the wood needs is taken away, which causes the wood to smoke and emit lots of gases which some will go up the chimney unless it gets a "shot" of oxygen by way of non sealed pipe joints or anywhere else your stove might suck in enough air for a "starved of oxygen" fire.

When this happens, the gases will very quickly expand, much more than the stove pipe and seals can handle and the result is a mini explosion or burp of this smoke and gases into the room.

whphel you say, When you say damper are you refering to the top pully or the air flow at the bottom? Or are you opening the air fully and leaving the top open or both? I’m confused.

I don't have a top control........bottom air intake on my stove controls all air to my stove.

whphel says, Does this not defeat the purpose of an epa efficient wood stove? Or am I miss understanding what you guys are doing?

It does not defeat the EPA stuff at all, it actually in my opinion would make my stove exhaust much cleaner by not dampering.

BeGreen says, By the description, this sounds like a low draft flue. If I ran our stove wide open, all I’d be doing is wasting wood and having a short burn. But perhaps with a very big split this would work. What size splits are you using?

Fairly large splits.

TruePatriot, I've never thought of it that way, you may be right.........my stove has an air intake control that will allow air to enter through the bottom of my stove, it may not be a damper at all............I just called it that since most every one here did.........

Hubjeep says, What do EPA wood stoves do that opening the draft with a large log defeats? Nothing that I know of........

tradergordo says, Sounds like something wrong with your stove or draft. One split in a stove doesn’t burn well unless you already have a big coal bed, and even then its only going to burn the smoke if you are dampered down. It sounds like you are purposefully trying to create a smoldering log that burns all night. I don’t believe that you see no smoke out the chimney - this is not possible in a situation with a long overnight burn on an undampered stove with a single log in it (don’t get me wrong, I know you can burn undampered with no smoke, I demonstrate this in my everburn demo video series, but I don’t think this is what you are doing). What kind of flue and stovetop temps do you have at the beginning, middle, and end of these burns? What is the typical outdoor temp?

I have a few coals, but not big, my wood is very dry, one split will burn very well and very hot for several hours, during this time my blower is on and then after the split is gone the coals heat very well for a while.......all in all it works much better than the way I burned before.

I never have smoke any more except when I first start my fire............and my pipe is the cleanest it's ever been.

My log does not smolder, it is in full flame in a totally non dampered stove (or completly open air) stove

I see very little smoke, and my one log/split burns wide open with no restricted air intake (or damper) closed for several hours.........or until I rekindle the fire several hours later.

Double wall flu temp outside is between 150 to 250 during one split in full flame.

Stove top temp. I don't know (mine is covered by stove top, see picture, (broken link removed to http://www.warmingtrendsstoves.com/mission_ws.html) ), but front upper is usually 350 to 450 depending on the split make and size etc.

If you will re read the pre req. of these burns etc. you will see I get my stove hot with poplar usually, then add a split.

My stove is usually around 500 degrees at bedtime, I then add a split which literally lights as soon as it hits the coals. It then burns all the flammable outside areas an then slows a bit for an extended burn of several hours......again variable depending on make and size of split.

Caz, https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11116/

AndyD1480 says, Yeah, i wonder if you could explain. If I leave it wide open and use one log, it’ll burn super fast and send most of the heat up the chimney.

Put your log as far away from the flu exit as you can and it will not go out as fast and will heat your stove......this is a trial and error type system, it obviously will not be to the liking of all. It helps if you have larger splits and dry wood.

Whew ! I think I may be confused now......... I hope these answers might help..........this way really works for me and my stove.


Robbie