Aaaaaand another "Help Me Choose a Stove" Thread

[Garrin]

Hi All,

Thanks in advance. I know there are a thousand "help me choose a stove" threads but figured I'd throw my own on here and see if I'm missing anything.

Looking at buying an insert (or stove if one would fit) for my 2100sq ft ranch. The masonry fireplace is in the middle of the open living/dining/kitchen and the bedrooms are on the other end of the house. There is a second masonry fireplace downstairs as well.

Looking to supplement the gas furnace and I like the idea of sourcing my own heat as much as is feasible. We've got solar being installed relatively soon and would love to be able to heat the main living space with wood and use baseboard heat or something of the like to heat the bedrooms when needed.

Wood is bucked but not split and stacked, but I mostly just want to take advantage of that 26% and don't mind buying a bit of wood to supplement heat this winter. Got a ton of ash to split, so we might get some down to acceptable MC in time for some burns?

The fireplace in question is 48" wide, 32" tall. Top of the box is 15" deep and it starts tapering 13" up. Picture attached.

Chimney is 15' tall and there are three flues under one rain cover (both fireplaces and old furnace).

We had a local chimney sweep come and quote us 6k for a Regency unit and install- but that's currently a bit rich for our blood.

I am currently considering buying the drolet 1800i. Looking at Riteway's install of the same unit make it look like a pretty straightforward process to DIY and our setup is close to his as far as the existing damper and chimney is concerned.

Welp, sorry for the wall of text but I tried to anticipate some of the typical questions.

Thanks again!
-Garrin

 

[begreen]

The Drolet 1800i should work.

 

[Deppizzymo]

Just wanted to throw out that if you can find a stock of a stove you are looking into buying to probably buy it. We just had a 4 month wait on our Lopi Liberty. Now that it is July, that would put you into November if you were going through a dealer purchase of a non-stock stove. Other manufacturers may be different but I know the supply issue has hit stove manufacturers as well as everyone else.

 

[brenndatomu]

This is basically the factory store...they show 48 in stock...and ship fast too....also have liner kits. Not affiliated, just a customer.

ESCAPE 1800-I WOOD INSERT

Ideal for heating up to 2,100 ft², the Escape 1800 is the ultimate versatile wood insert! With only 1.54 g/h of particulate emissions, this non-catalytic appliance gives off up to 75,000 BTU/h. The Escape 1800 is the perfect choice to update your

myfireplaceproducts.com

 

[EbS-P]

The 1800i is the cheapest option. I got the kit with liner and added insulation wrap. Just insulate it now so you have no worries later if your install is code compliant. It’s a solid no frills heater. It was an afternoon DIY to clean the old flue really well and knock out the damper assembly. Another afternoon to install. Get the wood split ASAP. If you can get ahold of some pine you might just get it dry if you split it small. Burning wet wood isn’t fun. Consider a solar kiln. Or a pallet of bio bricks.

Do yourself a favor an make sure to have an insulated blockoff plate installed.

Double check your requirements for hearth depth and R value if needed for extension. And your mantel and trim clearance.

 

[Garrin]

Thanks all! Feeling pretty good about getting the drolet unit bought and installed this year.

Venting Questions:
-I know about the 3-2-10 rule. Attached is a picture of my chimney setup (guy who did it was a hack). Will I need to extend the liner up 2 feet above the other flues? If so, is there a way to maintain the flat cover that covers the whole chimney?
- If I wanted to do a rigid liner, would I need to do more support than just a collar at top? And do I still need more insulation for a double wall pipe?

Again, I know there are a ton of these type of posts, so I greatly appreciate your folk's time and knowledge.

 

[EbS-P]

My I understanding As long as the chimney meets the Rule you are ok. but sometimes air will enter the basement flue and be sucked downstairs.
I have two fireplaces one up one downstairs and this was not an issue for me. my house is not very tight.

stainless liner, is the product you would use to hook up your insert, rigid or flexible. Double wall stove pipe can’t be used as a liner. Unless you assemble the entire rigid liner then wrap it I’m not sure how one would install an insulated rigid liner one piece at a time.
**edit there are double wall insulated rigid liner but it’s really pricey.

A top plate sized to your clay tile liner will support the stainless liner. The insert does too, but the entire weight can be supported by the top plate.

There is a minimum the stainless liner must stick up from the top plate. Can’t recall right now but you need at least 6” (I think) from the top of the liner to the bottom of the multi flue cap you already have. If that is an issue my solution was to raise my miltinflue cap up with taller stainless expanded metal mesh.

 

[Garrin]

I am thinking that this may not work without serious clearance mitigation.

I've got 16" of the stone for the hearth extension (only 1" above the hardwood), so that's 7" short I think. I've got 40" from the hearth to the trim up top. With a 21" tall insert, I'm 8" from the 27". So, unless I'm misunderstanding the clearances, I think I may be SOL on the insert without a big overhaul.

Any fixes or alternatives besides tearing stuff out and increasing the non-combustible area?

Again, thank you thank you.
-Garrin

 

[begreen]

By double-wall, do you mean a liner with an insulation layer? Or rigid double-wall DuraLiner? If Duraliner, the liner is supported at the top.

The hearth extension appears to be a remodel. Was the stone laid down on hardwood or on the concrete underside of the previous hearth? Is there a basement or crawlspace where you can look at the underside of the hearth? If it is on wood then there may be other options including a freestanding stove than only needs an ember protection hearth.

 

[Garrin]

I did mean a rigid liner, I'd read on here that rigid is preferred if possible, but the flexible seems a bit easier of an install if I'm correct?

The stone is on concrete that is flush with the hardwood.

Thank you.

 

[begreen]

I did mean a rigid liner, I'd read on here that rigid is preferred if possible, but the flexible seems a bit easier of an install if I'm correct?

Both are good options. A good, heavy wall flex liner is as good as a rigid one. The rigid is a little more work to install and won't work with offsets, so flex is the most preferred for ease of installation.

If the stone is on the concrete hearth then it should be ok. The hearth might need an extension, depending on the insert or stove installation. That might require some rework. A flush insert or a stove that needs ember-protection only may work without hearth modification. Or a hearth pad could be placed in front of the stove for winter use. This could be removed when the heating season is over.

 

[Garrin]

Okay, good to know on the liner.

So I could just lay a hearth pad over the hardwood to get the required clearance for the floor?

As for the upper clearance, any fixes there? Are there any other units that wouldn't require as much upper clearance? I was looking at the drolet simply because it seems like a solid budget option. I haven't looked at much else in detail as far as clearances go.

Thank you again.

 

[marty319]

That's what I do,put a hearth pad during heating season

 

[brenndatomu]

As for the upper clearance, any fixes there? Are there any other units that wouldn't require as much upper clearance?

Possibly a heat non combustible heat shield?

 

[EbS-P]

At 32” high there are hearth installed stoves that can fit and only need ember floor protection but you still have to meet trim and mantel clearances. some units allow heat shields for the mantle. Read the manual.

IMO the best and cheapest option is go with a Drolet insert that gets the 26% credit for the entire install. New compliant trim and mantel would be included in the 26% ( my understanding but consult your tax pro) New mantel trim is easier than and R value hearth extension in my opinion. It is going to turn into a bigger project but I think new combustible trim (I’m thinking tile) won’t be super expensive. It’s a bigger project for sure. Prices today I’m guessing 2500$ get an insert with insulated liner.

Now I would tell my wife my plan and she’d say go ahead and i’d tear out the trim with all intentions of getting it replaced within the week or month. Id get insert installed (but not the trim). And there it would sit for quite some time. Months to years. And I’d here about how it’s another one of my failures at least weekly and wish I had just left well enough alone

 

[Garrin]

Now I would tell my wife my plan and she’d say go ahead and i’d tear out the trim with all intentions of getting it replaced within the week or month. Id get insert installed (but not the trim). And there it would sit for quite some time. Months to years. And I’d here about how it’s another one of my failures at least weekly and wish I had just left well enough alone

Definitely gives me some "Ghost of Christmas Future" vibes. If it wasn't for the tax credit, I wouldn't even be considering trying to get a stove in.

We'll see, I don't feel much like tearing into anything- so I might start perusing other units to see if there's anything appropriately sized with less upper and hearth clearances.

 

[Garrin]

Found a used Fireview in town. Anything I'd need to consider if I wanted to go with that? I'd definitely trade the ability to heat the whole house for some cash saved and a cool appliance.

Again, thanks for all the advice.

 

[EbS-P]

Found a used Fireview in town. Anything I'd need to consider if I wanted to go with that? I'd definitely trade the ability to heat the whole house for some cash saved and a cool appliance.

Again, thanks for all the advice.

Woodstock will sell you any parts that need replacement. Ask for a picture of the UL label on the back. I’m guessing clearances could still be an issue. Double check them.

1.85 cu ft realistic burn/reload times are 6 hours when it’s cold.

How old is the stove and does it have a catalyst? Any badly damaged stones? I would consider one if the price and condition were right. Will need a hearth pad and check if need ember only or R value.

 

[Garrin]

Will check on the UL label. If the specs are the same as the current model, I need 8" of clearance from the front for hearth, so it may be kind of awkward to load. I'd need a heat shield up top, too. But it'd be a bit easier to do that than tear out the trim for an insert.

Picture looks like a catalyst, right? Price is $800 but I think it's been posted for awhile, so I could probably get it for less. Not sure of the condition, but will check on getting a look inside.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes that’s a catalyst, one that needs replacement. 300-400$ I’m guessing

From the front door you need 16” of non combustible hearth. Manual will tell you if you need R value or just ember protection. You need the manual for the actual unit. If all it needs is a catalyst and the rest is in good shape 800$ seem fair. If it needs any work at all I wouldn’t pay more than 4-600$. (I could be way off fair market but if it meets your clearances that’s worth something) Depending on the age of the stove the cat doesn’t guarantee low and slow just a cleaner more efficient combustion.

 

[begreen]

If the Fireview is in good condition and a model 205 then $800 is a great price. It needs a lintel height of at least 26.5" to clear the rear-exit flue, so no issue there.
Fireview replacement cat pair is $184 from Condar.

Woodstock Soapstone catalyst guide

 

[Garrin]

Here's a pic of the inside. Stove was made in 03, so it's old enough to drink. I wouldn't mind doing some refurbishing, but I have 0 experience in gauging what is worth fixing up.

Kind lady at Woodstock said it'd likely need a good 5-600 in repairs, but I'd be willing to put in some work and money. Might see if lady will take $3-400? Lots of cat scratches on the soapstone exterior.

As for venting, would I run rigid or is there a black, not-unsightly flex liner I could consider?

I'm thinking I'll need to buy/make an upper heat shield, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker. All other clearances appear good.

Again, thanks all. This is a great community you guys got here.

 

[Garrin]

Sorry, almost* old enough to drink. Good to go in Europe or Wisconsin, I think.

 

[Todd]

That Fireview fire box looks pretty decent for its age. it has the old cast iron combustor scoop which is usually the first thing to warp and show signs of an over fire. There is a new stainless scoop kit that’s pretty easy to install. I’d probably get a new gasket kit and stainless cat from Woodstock too. Also check the bypass plate for warping. It’s a side loader and needs 16” clearance from the loading door but only requires 8” out front. The bypass lever is on the same side as the door just behind it as well as the air control so you’ll need the stove to sit out far enough to operate those. Overall from what I can see it looks to be a pretty good deal, if it were a bit closer I’d probably jump on it.

 

[begreen]

Cat scratches might be removable with steel wool, starting with coarser grade and going up to the finer level. Woodstock has info on their website about this. Back in 2003 the stove sold for about $1800?? Now it is over twice that. Restored, it could be a good stove for years. I don't think I would make a real low offer, but maybe $600 cash?