Adding a Second Building to my Garn2000. Opinions on plumbing.

[BHetrick10]

I have been using the Garn to heat my shop and apartment (all under one roof). We are building a new house that the Garn will also be utilized for. I am looking for some opinions on connecting the house.

I currently have the shop pressurized. I have a FPHX in the Garn shed. My current lay out is Primary/ secondary loops.

Below is the schematic of how things are.

 

[BHetrick10]

These are a few schematics of what I came up with. I am wanting to keep it efficient and affordable. Leaning towards bottom right options as I would only need to purchase Zone valves and upgrade my primary circ. Just not sure when both are open if I would have issues balance flow, may need ball valves to choke flow to one of the buildings? I have know experience with hydraulic separators, maybe this is a place for one?

 

[leon]

Simplify your life and just run a circulator from the garn to the
new home to heat the entire home on one zone by heating
the water a second storage tank in the basement for the
home heating needs.

The more hot water you have in storage the better and one
of the members on the forum here has 4 425-gallon pressurized
storage tanks that were salvaged from a hospital demolition job.

Its cheap storage for what you want to do by simply tying the 4 tanks
in together in the basement which would let you heat the
home with very little work on the plumbing end.

 

[BHetrick10]

No offense but that doesn't simplify things. I still would need to interface a pressurized system to the Garn. I also do not want to put water tanks in my house.

I assume the easiest thing would be to stick with bottom right option and use circs with IFC then I wouldn't have flow issues when only one zone is running.

 

[leon]

Its your money.

 

[Bob Rohr]

No offense but that doesn't simplify things. I still would need to interface a pressurized system to the Garn. I also do not want to put water tanks in my house.

I assume the easiest thing would be to stick with bottom right option and use circs with IFC then I wouldn't have flow issues when only one zone is running.

Be nice if you could run all the zones on the new loop at one temperature, that would eliminate mixing devices and just run a parallel loop of the current P/S loop. Sometimes playing with tube spacing can help you get temperatures in line, Within 10- 15° of one another is close enough.

Programs like LoopCad or any of the free radiant design programs allow you to play around with tube options to get supply temperatures evened out.

 

[leon]

Hey Bob,

That was the major reason I suggested having more thermal mass storage in the basement as an idea
Bob. I look at it as money in the bank BTU Per Hour wise and it would make the Garn he has work even
less to make more heat as the effort will have been put in the heated water storage to make more thermal mass.

 

[maple1]

Pretty sure more heat = more work, regardless.

 

[BHetrick10]

Be nice if you could run all the zones on the new loop at one temperature, that would eliminate mixing devices and just run a parallel loop of the current P/S loop. Sometimes playing with tube spacing can help you get temperatures in line, Within 10- 15° of one another is close enough.

Programs like LoopCad or any of the free radiant design programs allow you to play around with tube options to get supply temperatures evened out.

I'll have to check those out. I am not sure I understand until I look at those. I currently am using regular mix valves and am having issues with temp swing due to them not being able to maintain a constant supply temp with the Garn supply changing 60* I was going to bite the bullet and get mix valves with outdoor resets to eliminate that. I am all for finding other ways to do things.

Leon still cant seem to understand the concept of adding more storage. 1,800+ gal is enough me. Usually go 3-4 days between burn and as well insulated as the house is I should be 2-3 days. If I could get more BTU's out of a burn to store then sure but buying a tank, getting it, all the fitting and pipe to tie it in and insulate is something I cant justify doing.

 

[leon]

I do understand and I was wood burner for 33 years after
switching from a hand wood and coal boiler with 25 gallons
of capacity to a coal stoker. Like I said, its your money and
making it more complicated defeats the purpose of more
thermal storage to take advantage of the heat per gallon
available to you.
.

 

[Mike Fromme]

I do understand and I was wood burner for 33 years after
switching from a hand wood and coal boiler with 25 gallons
of capacity to a coal stoker. Like I said, its your money and
making it more complicated defeats the purpose of more
thermal storage to take advantage of the heat per gallon
available to you.
.

Yeah, he probably should just add a second garn.

 

[Bob Rohr]

I'll have to check those out. I am not sure I understand until I look at those. I currently am using regular mix valves and am having issues with temp swing due to them not being able to maintain a constant supply temp with the Garn supply changing 60* I was going to bite the bullet and get mix valves with outdoor resets to eliminate that. I am all for finding other ways to do things.

Leon still cant seem to understand the concept of adding more storage. 1,800+ gal is enough me. Usually go 3-4 days between burn and as well insulated as the house is I should be 2-3 days. If I could get more BTU's out of a burn to store then sure but buying a tank, getting it, all the fitting and pipe to tie it in and insulate is something I cant justify doing.

Wide temperature swings like that are hard for a thermostatic to get a handle on. Remember also, most thermostatic valves have a very high pressure drop. A motorized mix valve would solve both those concerns and add the ability to control based on indoor/ outdoor reset, possibly control via wifi device.

I like thermostatic for small zone control, generally under 5 gpm loads for typical off the shelf 3 Cv thermostatic valves.

 

[S.Whiplash]

Pretty sure more heat = more work, regardless.

Exactly, the only way you get more energy out of a burn is by burning more wood. It's fhisiks.

 

[BHetrick10]

Wide temperature swings like that are hard for a thermostatic to get a handle on. Remember also, most thermostatic valves have a very high pressure drop. A motorized mix valve would solve both those concerns and add the ability to control based on indoor/ outdoor reset, possibly control via wifi device.

I like thermostatic for small zone control, generally under 5 gpm loads for typical off the shelf 3 Cv thermostatic valves.

Bob I didn't get a chance to look at those programs yet. Need to find time to do that.

I was assuming what you said is the case. I have had people tell me that the mix valves should be able to go 100 H/C and maintain a constant supply as long as my flow is high enough. I honestly don't remember what my flow is. I'll have to do some math. I realized my Bumble Bee on DT that sometimes I have a DT of 30+ degrees and doesn't make it to the factory setting of 20 before the T stat is satisfied and shuts down. I have 6 loops heating 1760 SQF all are right at 300' Looks like maybe the Bumble bee cant move enough water.