Advice on insert installation

[jlmac27]

Hello everyone,
I am getting ready to rip out my fireplace and put a woodburning insert in.Was thinking on the buck 91,seems to be a beast .But my question is how to I fireproof inside of insert hole?I have yet to tare out my fireplace so not sure whats behind it.Its a newer house with a stainless steel liner already installed for fireplace.Im not new to burning wood, but new to the insert installation lol.So what ever advice you can throw at me would be greatly appreciated!!
Josh

 

[jlmac27]

That's my fireplace in my avatar that I am working with.

 

[jlmac27]

It seems I would need a ZC insert?Because I'm not installing in a masonry fireplace?

 

[bholler]

that is true jlmac27. There is also allot of debate over weather or not you can put an insert in that zc unit you have. I don't think it is a good idea personally and most professional organizations fell the same saying that it is not worth the liability. So I would recommend taking out what you have and replacing it with a new zc unit if you want to change it for a more efficient setup.

 

[jlmac27]

Thank you for the reply,
I am wanting to pull that fireplace insert out of wall and put a ZC insert in it's place..Was looking at the buck 91 insert but it's not ZC.Any recommendations on a bigger ZC in the $2300 price areas?My house is a 1900 sq ft ranch.And well insulated.Thanks in advance

 

[bholler]

No advice from me as far as units we rarely deal with zc units other that to clean some. So I don't have much information as far s what units to choose sorry but I am sure someone will give you recommendation soon.

 

[jlmac27]

Thank you again,I hope to hear from others soon.

 

[Mike19]

I did exactly what you are wanting to do a couple of months ago. The ZC set up I had looked almost identical to yours. I called around and talked to some installers and they were very helpful considering they knew I was not going to give them any business. I removed my ZC unit made and T post to support the chimney pipe so I could get in there and work. I lined all the walls and combustible materials with dura rock directly to the studs. Then I made my own heat shield from some sheet metal with 1.5 spacer made from dura rock. Mounted the spacer to the studs and sheet metal to the spacers I left a 2 inch gap at the bottom of the sheet metal and floor to allow air circulation. And all this is about 6 ft high. Put 2 pieces of dura rock on the bottom with another piece of sheet metal on top with a overlap on to the hearth to block any embers from falling down in there. I have built some pretty good fires and the sheet metal never even got warm! I also have my fresh air intake piped through the dura rock so it allows the air to hit the sheet metal. Hope all this helps good luck. The hardest thing was trying not to completely destroy the living room and have my wife all over me!

 

[jlmac27]

Thank you for all the info Mike.So can you put a normal insert with the dura rock heat shield or does it need to be ZC?
I am going to try and up load a few pics of what I got...hope these can explain better what I'm wanting to do.

 

[bholler]

If you can get the proper clearances to combustibles with a combination of heat shielding and air space yes you can put what ever you want in there. But I seriously doubt that just lining the inside of your opening with dura rock and sheet metal even with an air space is going to get you any where near that. you also need to check the requirement for clearance to the ceiling in an alcove install it is usually fairly high. You will also have to check requirements for floor protection for the insert you would be installing but 2 layers of durarock and a layer of sheet metal is not enough for most.

 

[jlmac27]

So I basically need to go with a ZC?Are the minimum clearance for the ZC inserts fairly small?
I also thought about a wood burning furnace in garage hooked into ductwork.Im not sure what direction to go.

 

[bholler]

Yes clearances for zc are very small thus the name zero clearance lol.

 

[jlmac27]

Lol yeah guess the name says it all.Any advice on some bigger ZC brands that can throw out some heat.

 

[Dave A.]

[Scratching my head] Let me get this straight. You want to rip out your present (looks to me) ZC fireplace and replace it with another ZC to install a wood stove insert inside of. Or just install an insert without a ZC fireplace with just durock around it.

No. Big no to the latter. There are only a few generally smaller inserts that can be installed in ZC fireplaces and only where the insert mfr indicates ZC is allowed (even then, your ZC mfr should be saying it's okay too). Pretty sure the Buck 91 is NOT one of them. (download the install manual and check to be sure). It's big, 8" flue, catalytic, and likely requires either a masonry fireplace or be installed with legs as a freestanding stove with appropriate clearances and class A flue.

If you want to burn wood efficiently for heat (vs. ambiance only), then either pull out your present ZC fireplace and replace it with a high efficiency EPA rated ZC fireplace (which is basically a woodstove insert built into a ZC fireplace). Or pull out the ZC and install a freestanding stove in its place with a new class a flue. Or find one of the smaller inserts that will fit your present fireplace and you will also need to install a full SS liner--room for attaching the flue outlet on the insert to the liner may be a problem. I know Travis (Lopi) has a few smaller ones that are rated for ZC and there are some others.

If you want the fireplace look, you may be able to install a freestanding wood stove inside an alcove that is made to look like a fireplace.

 

[jlmac27]

I'm sorry for the confusion,
I want to take out the fireplace and put a ZC woodburning insert.I have an 8" triple wall liner that appears to be SS.This is ok to use I would think with new insert?Sorry for my newbie posts,I was under the assumption all inserts were ok for non masonry fireplaces.

 

[begreen]

There is a confusion of terminology here. A ZC insert goes into the fireplace. You can't install one unless there is first a fireplace to insert into.

Do you want to put a wood burning insert into the existing ZC fireplace or do you want to tear out the current ZC fireplace and replace it with a modern, EPA ZC fireplace?

 

[Dave A.]

Liner implies it's inside a chimney (masonry or metal, but not just a chase). I suspect what you have is just the chimney for the ZC. Am pretty sure that cannot be used by itself and would have to be lined with a SS liner, or replaced.

Am finding no ZC woodburning inserts in a search. Do you have any ones in mind that you've seen.

This is the sort of high efficiency ZC fireplace I was talking about--http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-93375.html. There are larger and more expensive ones also by BIS, Napoleon, Fireplace Xtrordinaire, PE, et.al. -- e.g. http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500113

 

[begreen]

There are several inserts that are qualified to go into approved ZC fireplaces. Travis (Avalon), Regency and Enviro make them amongst others. They do require a full 6" stainless liner run up the original chimney. The ZC fireplace must meet UL127 specs. Then it's a matter of meeting the size, clearance and room requirements.

 

[jlmac27]

There is a confusion of terminology here. A ZC insert goes into the fireplace. You can't install one unless there is first a fireplace to insert into.

Do you want to put a wood burning insert into the existing ZC fireplace or do you want to tear out the current ZC fireplace and replace it with a modern, EPA ZC fireplace?

I want to tear out my exsisting fireplace and replace if with something that is more efficient.

 

[begreen]

Got it. You don't need an insert like the Buck 91, your need a new fireplace. This will be much more expensive. Dave's suggestion is a good start. Look at modern ZC fireplaces by BIS, Kozy, Quadrafire, Pacific Energy, Valcourt for starters. All are good brands.

 

[jlmac27]

I am wanting to tear out old one ZC fireplace.and put in something to heat my home.Im very new to all the terminology so please bear with me

Liner implies it's inside a chimney (masonry or metal, but not just a chase). I suspect what you have is just the chimney for the ZC. Am pretty sure that cannot be used by itself and would have to be lined with a SS liner, or replaced.

Am finding no ZC woodburning inserts in a search. Do you have any ones in mind that you've seen.

This is the sort of high efficiency ZC fireplace I was talking about--http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-93375.html. There are larger and more expensive ones also by BIS, Napoleon, Fireplace Xtrordinaire, PE, et.al. -- e.g. http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500113

wanting

 

[begreen]

What is your budget? A full tearout and replacement can run about $7-10K.

 

[jlmac27]

What is your budget? A full tearout and replacement can run about $7-10K.

Was not wanting to go over $3000.I can do the labor myself.

 

[begreen]

You are strictly in insert territory then. That is a wood burning insert approved for use in a ZC fireplace. First thing to do is identify the fireplace make and model and its UL testing. Check with your insurance company too. They may require a professional installation which will add to the final price tag. If so, $4K may be a more realistic budget.

 

[jlmac27]

Lol well this is way more then I had initially thought it was going to be.One other option is I found a deal on a woodburning furnace.I would love to put it in my garage and duct it into house.Is this even a possibility?I know insurance company's are strict.