Advice on wood stove insert

[weaverra]

I recently purchased a 2300 sq ft. ranch home in North Alabama. I reality I'm only heating between 1800 and 2100 sq ft with a 12 year old heatpump. The home currently has a prefab fireplace. Similar to this one. I was looking at putting in an insert and found that my selection is limited with the prefab fireplace. We are on a slab and the hearth is actually built up with concrete and overlaid with brick. One of the options i have considered was building a firebox to house an insert as you would a masonry fireplace. The chase that runs up the outside of the living room wall is 6' wide by 4' deep. The prefab is flush with the interior wall. Would it be possible to build such a box to house an insert? There is plenty of room inside the chase. The other option would be to look at getting a Buck Stove model 74 as it is rated for prefab installation. My question is the only clearance issue is going to be the opening height. I would need at least 22.5". Currently I would have to cut out part of the fireplace to accommodate the insert. I've also estimated that I will need approximately 12' of 6" or 8" re-liner for the stove.
-> Forgot to add that there is approximately 3' of space 180 deg around the existing chimney pipe. That is all three walls of the exterior chase.

 

[begreen]

There are some qualifiers for a ZC install, not all are acceptable for insert install. You will need to check the make and model info on the ZC nameplace in the doorframe. If it is an acceptable unit the fireplace can not be modified except for removing the doors and damper. Building a masonry fireplace there is even more out of the question. One solution might be to install a rear-vent freestanding stove in front of it. What is the distance from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening?

Note that 12' of chimney is going to be too short for most modern inserts. They typically are specced at 15'-25'

 

[weaverra]

There are some qualifiers for a ZC install, not all are acceptable for insert install. You will need to check the make and model info on the ZC nameplace in the doorframe. If it is an acceptable unit the fireplace can not be modified except for removing the doors and damper. Building a masonry fireplace there is even more out of the question. One solution might be to install a rear-vent freestanding stove in front of it. What is the distance from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening?

Note that 12' of chimney is going to be too short for most modern inserts. They typically are specced at 15'-25'

There is 38" from the hearth to the top of the actual opening not the ZC opening. 15' wouldn't be a problem. It would just extend above the chase 3' total. The chimney chase itself if 14'7" in the air

 

[begreen]

Picture please. You need to go by the VC firebox opening height for a rear vent flue to pass under it. Can you provide that height?

 

[weaverra]

 

[weaverra]

The fireplace is a Martin SC42 unit.

 

[weaverra]

What I would like to do is build a masonry box to fit any insert in. One thing they did when they built this fireplace was to leave a ton of space inside the chase. The only real clearance issue would be the framed opening and that could be fixed relatively easy if they framed it to the minimum required for the Martin SC42 ZC fireplace. I see it as no different than building a alcove hearth to put a free standing wood stove in. We are on a slab. The hearth is built up with concrete with the exposed area of the hearth concrete with with brick overlay. This house was built over 20 years ago and in that time it was one of the more premium houses in that area.

 

[Grisu]

Fireplace inserts are designed and tested to be installed in masonry fireplaces. Check your local building code regarding its requirements for building one. Have you thought about an EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace? You would keep the fireplace look but get a serious heater. Problem is you will need to tear the fireplace apart to install one. An easier option is to put a freestanding rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace and run the liner up your existing chimney. Your hearth looks like it has enough depth. How high is the fireplace opening from the hearth? What diameter pipe is your flue?

 

[weaverra]

Fireplace inserts are designed and tested to be installed in masonry fireplaces. Check your local building code regarding its requirements for building one. Have you thought about an EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace? You would keep the fireplace look but get a serious heater. Problem is you will need to tear the fireplace apart to install one. An easier option is to put a freestanding rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace and run the liner up your existing chimney. Your hearth looks like it has enough depth. How high is the fireplace opening from the hearth? What diameter pipe is your flue?

I have looked at the newer ZC fireplaces. Would I be able to use the existing chimeny pipe assuming it's in excellent condition? I know the ZC EPA fireplaces I priced were starting in the $4K range.

 

[bholler]

(broken link removed to http://www.ncsg.org/wcmedia/documents/InstallationManuals/MartinSA42SC42.pdf)

Here is the manual read at the top of page 3 it says very clearly that you cant vent a solid fuel appliance or insert through this product without the written consent of martin industries so if you are planning on doing anything that is where you need to start

 

[woodpusher]

Hi, I've been looking at either a fireplace insert or a rear-vented wood-burning stove.

Is it necessary to install a flue liner for a fireplace insert? I had heard that one advantage was to keep out rain and birds - but what if you have a cap on your chimney to take care of that already?

Similarly, is it necessary to install a stovepipe for the wood-burning fireplace? The fireplace seems big enough for the stove but I think I'd have to have the damper removed if I have to put a stovepipe up the chimney. The fireplace has a masonry flue as it is.

Grisu mentions about more convection with a wood-burning stove at:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/free-standing-stove-vs-epa-fireplace.133679/

Now the other choice would be an insert plus a blower -- and as I say I'm not sure if I need a liner for the flue or not.

Is it best to have the liner professionally installed, or is it something you can do yourself?

 

[bholler]

Is it necessary to install a flue liner for a fireplace insert?

yes you need a liner with an insert or a freestander it has nothing to do wit hbirds or rain. You need it to give you a properly sized and sealed system. And no a stove pipe is not enough you need a liner. I dont know is grisu said it or not but a freestanding stove will give you more radiant heat not convective inserts are more convective

 

[Grisu]

Hi, I've been looking at either a fireplace insert or a rear-vented wood-burning stove.

Is it necessary to install a flue liner for a fireplace insert? I had heard that one advantage was to keep out rain and birds - but what if you have a cap on your chimney to take care of that already?

Similarly, is it necessary to install a stovepipe for the wood-burning fireplace? The fireplace seems big enough for the stove but I think I'd have to have the damper removed if I have to put a stovepipe up the chimney. The fireplace has a masonry flue as it is.

Grisu mentions about more convection with a wood-burning stove at:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/free-standing-stove-vs-epa-fireplace.133679/

Now the other choice would be an insert plus a blower -- and as I say I'm not sure if I need a liner for the flue or not.

Is it best to have the liner professionally installed, or is it something you can do yourself?

The post you linked to was about a stove in an alcove or a ZC fireplace and whether the stove would work well without a blower. I nan alcove, most of the radiant heat of the stove will go towards the walls so there will be little difference to a ZC fireplace. The stove may convect a little better just because the air has a bit more space to flow around the stove but I doubt the difference will be easily noticeable. Are you thinking of putting a rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace or is your fireplace tall enough to accommodate a top-vented stove?

You want a liner for better draft of your insert/stove, additional safety, and easier cleaning. Over the life of the stove/insert it is a small investment which will make you happy for years to come. There are quite a few members here who installed theirs themselves but check first how wide your flue is as that will determine how easy you can get a liner down there.

 

[woodpusher]

The post you linked to was about a stove in an alcove or a ZC fireplace and whether the stove would work well without a blower. I nan alcove, most of the radiant heat of the stove will go towards the walls so there will be little difference to a ZC fireplace. The stove may convect a little better just because the air has a bit more space to flow around the stove but I doubt the difference will be easily noticeable. Are you thinking of putting a rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace or is your fireplace tall enough to accommodate a top-vented stove?

I think it's tall enough to accommodate a top-vented stove - I'll measure it again though...
I'm in TN and this would not be my primary source of heat but I've got a lot of extra wood and I know most of my heat from the fireplace is going up the chimney.
I was having trouble seeing how either a wood stove or an insert could produce more creosote than an ordinary fire.
(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/pdffiles/Fireplace9_Layout%201.pdf)
this one says you need a liner for the additional heat....OK, I can see that.
Well, I'll have to get up on the roof to get clean the leaves out of the gutters - I can measure the flue then...(I assume I need to measure the flue at the top of the chimney....what, I need height, length and width?

 

[Grisu]

You will need the length of the chimney to make sure you order a long enough liner. They usually come in 5' intervals (15', 20', and so on). The width and length is needed to determine if you get a liner down your flue.

A modern stove/insert can produce more creosote because they reduce the heat that goes up the flue and the speed (velocity) of the flue gases. Both means you will get more heat into your house but it also can lead to water vapors and smoke particulates condensing on your flue walls and thereby creating creosote.

 

[woodpusher]

I've been looking at it again....so what, it's about $2K to get the liner installed?
Is it practical to put the wood stove in a living room with tile floor then vent it to the outside?
When it says "clearance from rear wall 13 in.; clearance from side wall 17 in; clearance from corner 17 in."
well, wouldn't the clearance to the corner necessarily be 21.4"? (add in quadrature?)
So far as the clearance goes - what, that's no TV, no furniture, no anything between the stove and the wall for 13 or 17 inches, as the case may be?
Maybe there's a little 4.4" triangle in the corner where you could put....a lamp or something?