(Advice request) BK Scirocco vs VC Montpelier

[Raoul]

Location: Western WA , 1920’s two story craftsman, modern windows, lathe and plaster, not open concept, tall ceilings

Currently heat/cool with ductless heat pumps and forced air natural gas.

I have an external chimney that is in excellent condition.

I have narrowed it to pretty much one of these stoves. I will not burn 24/7 as I can keep a cord or so on hand due to lot size.

My hesitation over the BK is concerns that it won’t be nice to look at and will require more user input. Other than that they both seem to be about the same price.

Thanks

 

[EbS-P]

The frist decision I made when looking for a new stove/insert was cat or non cat. For me that would be the major deciding factor between your two choices. If you only have a cord a season (I did that in about 7 weeks and I live in the south where it was almost 80 today) I’d want it to be pretty while it was burning . ( hence my non cat white stove). Advantage of the BK is longer low heat burns. If you have heat pumps and or furnace let kick on once in a while at night while you enjoy a hot roaring fire in the VC while you are awake. That said I would totally consider BK for my downstairs fireplace when we start wanting more heat in the secondary living space. If you want an all night burn I have found the saw dusk bricks to be the ticket which plenty of hot coals to start back up in the morning. Make sure you have really dry wood. Wet wood takes all the fun out of a new stove. Hope that helps.

Evan

 

[Raoul]

The frist decision I made when looking for a new stove/insert was cat or non cat. For me that would be the major deciding factor between your two choices. If you only have a cord a season (I did that in about 7 weeks and I live in the south where it was almost 80 today) I’d want it to be pretty while it was burning . ( hence my non cat white stove). Advantage of the BK is longer low heat burns. If you have heat pumps and or furnace let kick on once in a while at night while you enjoy a hot roaring fire in the VC while you are awake. That said I would totally consider BK for my downstairs fireplace when we start wanting more heat in the secondary living space. If you want an all night burn I have found the saw dusk bricks to be the ticket which plenty of hot coals to start back up in the morning. Make sure you have really dry wood. Wet wood takes all the fun out of a new stove. Hope that helps.

Evan

Well hopefully the maple I have on hand is dry. It’s been split stacked and covered on the top for a year. Biobricks/Tacoma logs are certainly available but I have access to free wood.

Yep that’s where I’m at. Is the CAT stove what I really want? No idea. If I can get pretty fires I’ll probably just get the BK as it’s WA made and if my tastes change well I’ve got a long burner.
On the other hand the VC has a giant window and feels like less maintenance.

 

[Tar12]

Everything being equal...the BK hands down would be the choice for me! User input? There will be much less with a cat stove! It is as close to set it and forget as it gets! What maintenance? Burning part time as you will be doing it will be years down the road before the cat will need to be replaced and this takes all of 5 minutes to do! They both require dry wood..they both require flue cleaning on a regular basis and they both require a snug door gasket...the BK is going to give you much longer even heat than the VC and you can have all of the flames you want with the BK..I will never go back to a non cat...

 

[Ashful]

If you were using this as a heating appliance, it’d be BK all day, every day. There really is no comparison, when considering it as a heater.

Your concerns about fire view are unfounded, you can get a fine fire view with BK, it only goes black when you run it on the lowest burn rates.

However, you’re only stocking 1 cord of wood, so that puts you into the ambiance burner category. At that point, the advantages of the BK become awful small. What price were you quoted for each?

 

[SculptureOfSound]

I went through this exact same choice (well, for me it was VC Montpelier vs Ashford 25, so essentially the same) and i ended up with a Montpelier, so my input is hopefully helpful.

I don't burn 24/7 for two reasons, our fireplace is not in the best location for it (far end of a long ranch in an external fireplace) and because we have natural gas here and it is dirt cheap. Easy to keep the house comfortable at the far end with the natural gas and use the fire to really heat up the main living area (usually keep this 1000sf area at 75-77 when burning)

For my circumstances I am glad I have the Montpelier. The fire view is unquestionably better (if you enjoy the look of secondary burns, I think they can be fascinating) and it can heat our whole 1600sf home in as low as 0f weather (although due to the layout of our house the bedrooms in the far end get a bit colder than I'd like when it is at or below 0 so I have the furnace kick on once in a while).

If you don't have room for much wood I doubt you'll be going for overnight burns as that would be a "waste" of the wood from a visual/ambiance perspective. Long burns and low burns are the BKs specialty. I would without hesitation recommend the BK if you were trying to heat 24/7 with wood, but as you aren't (and neither am I) I think the VC is the better choice in this scenario.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Also, the Montpelier doesn't meet 2020 regulations which means you should be able to talk them into quite a discount if you can find a place that has a floor model. I know our local shop is running deals on all floor model inserts that don't meet the regs

 

[bholler]

Also, the Montpelier doesn't meet 2020 regulations which means you should be able to talk them into quite a discount if you can find a place that has a floor model. I know our local shop is running deals on all floor model inserts that don't meet the regs

No reason to discount. They will be allowed to sell any stoves already made. Yes they will eventually be selling off their floor models though.

 

[Raoul]

If you were using this as a heating appliance, it’d be BK all day, every day. There really is no comparison, when considering it as a heater.

Your concerns about fire view are unfounded, you can get a fine fire view with BK, it only goes black when you run it on the lowest burn rates.

However, you’re only stocking 1 cord of wood, so that puts you into the ambiance burner category. At that point, the advantages of the BK become awful small. What price were you quoted for each?

Thank you so much for responding.

$4300 total installed for the Sirocco

And I have two quotes for the VC. $3900 and $4700.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

No reason to discount. They will be allowed to sell any stoves already made. Yes they will eventually be selling off their floor models though.

The local manager said they wouldn't be able to sell any stoves not meeting regulations past the cutoff date. He was quite pissed about it.

 

[Raoul]

I went through this exact same choice (well, for me it was VC Montpelier vs Ashford 25, so essentially the same) and i ended up with a Montpelier, so my input is hopefully helpful.

I don't burn 24/7 for two reasons, our fireplace is not in the best location for it (far end of a long ranch in an external fireplace) and because we have natural gas here and it is dirt cheap. Easy to keep the house comfortable at the far end with the natural gas and use the fire to really heat up the main living area (usually keep this 1000sf area at 75-77 when burning)

For my circumstances I am glad I have the Montpelier. The fire view is unquestionably better (if you enjoy the look of secondary burns, I think they can be fascinating) and it can heat our whole 1600sf home in as low as 0f weather (although due to the layout of our house the bedrooms in the far end get a bit colder than I'd like when it is at or below 0 so I have the furnace kick on once in a while).

If you don't have room for much wood I doubt you'll be going for overnight burns as that would be a "waste" of the wood from a visual/ambiance perspective. Long burns and low burns are the BKs specialty. I would without hesitation recommend the BK if you were trying to heat 24/7 with wood, but as you aren't (and neither am I) I think the VC is the better choice in this scenario.

Your post is appreciated. I am reasonably sure that provided I get a good installer/support both will be good stoves.

I’ll try the 2020 angle. Though it’s cold and snowy here in western WA. Probably not the ideal time for haggling.

Which surround did you chose to go with your stove?

 

[SculptureOfSound]

The one reason I wish I had an Ashford 25 over the Montpelier would be easier overnight burns. I've only got pine on hand right now and I can maybe have some coals at 8 hours but very few and it's almost a new cold start (stove top is maybe 120, although inside refractory panels are still quite warm...it does heat up about twice as fast as a true cold start).

I'd love to keep a fire going 24/7 just because (as long as I can find/scrounge enough free wood) but its not really possible with the Montpelier unless you have hardwoods.

That being said, it's only February and just burning most
nights and weekends I've gone through about 2 cords of pine, so that would be about 1 cord of oak.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Your post is appreciated. I am reasonably sure that provided I get a good installer/support both will be good stoves.

I’ll try the 2020 angle. Though it’s cold and snowy here in western WA. Probably not the ideal time for haggling.

Which surround did you chose to go with your stove?

Truth is I couldn't decide between the two (never had a stove or insert before and was too hesitant to drop 5k+ when I just didn't know what I even wanted or how much I'd heat with wood). I went that winter without an insert with the plan to buy a cheap tube stove on Craigslist and try one out, that way I'd at least know if I was ok with the tube stoves shorter burn times and less even heat.

I watched for months and months and tried to make a few deals but people were being flaky or weird and somehow the deals all fell through. I was just about to give up hope when a Montpelier showed up for $200 just 90 mins away. Bought it and picked it up the same day it was listed.

So I went with the surround it had - the Caprice + additional steel sheet. Here's a pic

 

[Ashful]

Thank you so much for responding.

$4300 total installed for the Sirocco

And I have two quotes for the VC. $3900 and $4700.

Similar pricing, that doesn't make the choice any easier.

If you think you'll start using it for heat down the road, the BK has the advantage. If it's just for ambiance, then the flame show of the VC might be better. Manufacturer product support is vastly better on the BK, but you might have good support thru a local VC dealer.

The BK has a combustor, which will require replacement every ~15,000 hours. That's every third year for most full-time (24/7) burners, but would be once per decade at your anticipated 1 cord per year rate. Replacement takes 5 minutes (no tools) and costs ~$200.

 

[Raoul]

Truth is I couldn't decide between the two (never had a stove or insert before and was too hesitant to drop 5k+ when I just didn't know what I even wanted or how much I'd heat with wood). I went that winter without an insert with the plan to buy a cheap tube stove on Craigslist and try one out, that way I'd at least know if I was ok with the tube stoves shorter burn times and less even heat.

I watched for months and months and tried to make a few deals but people were being flaky or weird and somehow the deals all fell through. I was just about to give up hope when a Montpelier showed up for $200 just 90 mins away. Bought it and picked it up the same day it was listed.
View attachment 240436
So I went with the surround it had - the Caprice + additional steel sheet. Here's a pic

$200! Easy choice. Looks fantastic.

 

[Raoul]

Similar pricing, that doesn't make the choice any easier.

If you think you'll start using it for heat down the road, the BK has the advantage. If it's just for ambiance, then the flame show of the VC might be better. Manufacturer product support is vastly better on the BK, but you might have good support thru a local VC dealer.

The BK has a combustor, which will require replacement every ~15,000 hours. That's every third year for most full-time (24/7) burners, but would be once per decade at your anticipated 1 cord per year rate. Replacement takes 5 minutes (no tools) and costs ~$200.

Exactly. The price difference isn’t significant enough to push me either way.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

probably less user input on the BK. i tend to fiddle with the air controls for 45 mins or so on a cold start and maybe 20 on a reload. of course im still learning and am trying to optimize the burn and heat output.

if you think you'll be able to hold more wood in the future (probably 4 cords min realistically to have a couple year stash to properly dry) and might want to heat more full time then the BK is a safer investment.

it's a tough decision for sure. here in central wisconsin i need high output often (average needs are about 20k btu per hour in winter, on cold days say 0f or below i think it's closer to 30k) so i wouldn't get that much out of the low burn, especially with the location of the fireplace where it is, so i think the VC works just as well for my needs, and no combustor to replace.

That being said if i ever end up getting a stove for the basement (or a more centrally located stove upstairs) it will be an Ashford.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

one thing to know about the Montpelier is that under the sheet metal shell it is actually an all cast iron insert. i think every other insert on the market is a steel
box except for the hearthstone Clydesdale. the monty is a gasketed iron box.

this means it may need a rebuild in 15-20 years, but no welds to go bad and imo much less likely to see cracks or burned through areas. iron seems to hold up much better in the long run compared to steel - i never see posts about cracks or corroded through iron while such issues with steel do pop up here occasionally. just.something to consider

 

[bholler]

The local manager said they wouldn't be able to sell any stoves not meeting regulations past the cutoff date. He was quite pissed about it.

Yet another example of misinformation when it comes to this subject. Yes there is a cut off for sales of old stock. But it is 2022

 

[SculptureOfSound]

bholer, im not doubting you but is that posted or stated somewhere, maybe on the epa site? id like to take it to this guy as he is really nice and if he is misinformed, well, it's not like he was trying to screw me. first, he knew i already got my insert used for dirt cheap and second him selling at a discount is his loss. in

he even said usually there is a difference between manufacture cutoff date and sales cutoff date but that in this instance there wasn't and that's why he was so upset

 

[Ashful]

probably less user input on the BK. i tend to fiddle with the air controls for 45 mins or so on a cold start and maybe 20 on a reload. of course im still learning and am trying to optimize the burn and heat output.

My reload procedure on BK Ashford 30:

1. Open bypass and thermostat.
2. Fetch wood from outside, while coals come alive and combustor cools (2 minutes).
3. Open door, load full (north-south loading in my model).
4. Close door, let run on high 5 minutes, or until load is going nicely.
5. Close bypass, let run on high another 20 minutes.
6. Set thermostat to desired burn rate, walk away.

My cold-start procedure:

1. Fetch wood and kindling or favorite fire starter (SuperCedar).
2. Level ash bed, then plow a small divot front and center.
3. Set SuperCedar in divot and light it.
4. Load stove full, ensuring I have some smaller and drier stuff over the fire starter.
5. Wait about 12 minutes for flue probe to hit 500, then close bypass.
6. Run 20 minutes on high, then set thermostat and walk away.

if you think you'll... want to heat more full time then the BK is a safer investment.

The BK is a great heater, but remember, this is just an appliance. You're not marrying it, and it's not the end of the world if you have to swap it out, at some point. I've Craigslisted 3 of mine, and I'm currently burning stoves number 4 and 5. In fact I went from first fire in my first stove to buying stove number 5 in just 3.5 years, so I was getting quite good at moving stoves, for a few years.