Hello, Looking for help getting hot air to circulate. I've attatched a floor plan and temps I observed today. My problem is I cannot seem to get air to flow to the dining room / kitchen which is right next to the stove room, or upstairs to the main bedroom or bed room 2. I've tried pulling cold air to stove, pushing hot air away from stove, fans fast, fans slow, up high, down low it just wont move. Bigest problem I think are transoms above doors to dining room and stairway plus the upper stair landing crosses back over the stairs. When I took temp readings I had a fan suspended over stairs pulling up, and fan in diningroom pulling cold air to stove. What I'm thinking is a Tjernlund level to level vent to get heat up stairs via master bedroom and use the stairs as cold return. Or am I looking at it backwards? Also, I'm going to explore the wall above dining room door and see if a header is there and try to get a grille installed, house is balloon framed so I dunno whats in there. Not much of a transom its 14" from celing to doorway. Am I thinking correctly here? I'm open to suggestions, Very frusterating making all kinds of heat and it not flowing! Thanks!
Air just won't move, its a phenomenon!
- Thread starter Kobeman
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If you have any incense you can light it and just play around with fans on the floor in different spots. See where it's flowing or how you can reroute it.
Sons924
Burning Hunk
- Mar 7, 2013
- 243
Cold air being more dense than warm usually equates to PUSHING the cold air at floor level. Try to stick with mother nature on the natural convection methods. Warm air up top, cold at the bottom. Get it circulating. Trying to fight mother nature gets frustrating.
Looks like the stairs have no entrance on the first floor. How does one get upstairs?
To equalize the first floor temps, if possible I'd consider widening the opening between the dining room and living room. If you can increase that to 6ft. I think you will find a nice difference. Is there a ceiling fan in the living room? If yes, is it running on low speed in reverse (blowing upward)? And is the fan at the top of the stairs locate low and blowing down the stairs?
To equalize the first floor temps, if possible I'd consider widening the opening between the dining room and living room. If you can increase that to 6ft. I think you will find a nice difference. Is there a ceiling fan in the living room? If yes, is it running on low speed in reverse (blowing upward)? And is the fan at the top of the stairs locate low and blowing down the stairs?
With a closed floor plan like this you will have trouble. Ideal place for air movenment would be from your kitchen up into that 57 Deg bedroom. That would draw warm air into your kitchen then up into that cold bedroom and the cold air would return down the stair steps toward the stove.
Sorry my drawings are not that great, the stairs come out on the first floor right in front of the stove. The grey circles represent celing fans and I have them all running low in reverse. I'm going to put one in the center of the stove room as well. I have the fan in the stair way hanging flat out over the staircase sucking up warm air, last night I added another at the top on the floor blowing down the stairs and it helped quite a bit having both going, I'd tried just the fan blowing down and it didn't have much effect. My thoughts were a floor powered vent in the main bedroom, and you're right seasoned oak, I should put one on the other end in the other bed room but I wasn't sure it would flow down the stairs. I looks good on paper.
Not something I would consider as a permanent solution but may help in finding out why the air is not moving to the kitchen. The fan symbol in the dining room: What kind of fan is it? Is it a floor level or higher up? Would it be possible to move it further away from the door opening to the opposite wall?
If you can vent warm air into those bedrooms, you are guaranteed the cold air will flow out and thru the hallway and down the steps.
KaptJaq
Minister of Fire
Hi,
If you are considering adding between floor vents I would try a powered vent in the third BR pushing cold air down. What type vent is between the stove room and the MBR? Is it powered? What direction? Since the most hot air is near the ceiling in the stove room I would use a powered vent to bring hot air upstairs. Working with natural flow these two fans should start a convection loop. Anything that moves up the stairs would be a bonus. Variable speed reversible fans would would allow you to adjust the flow & temperatures based on seasonal needs.
Just my opinion,
KaptJaq
If you are considering adding between floor vents I would try a powered vent in the third BR pushing cold air down. What type vent is between the stove room and the MBR? Is it powered? What direction? Since the most hot air is near the ceiling in the stove room I would use a powered vent to bring hot air upstairs. Working with natural flow these two fans should start a convection loop. Anything that moves up the stairs would be a bonus. Variable speed reversible fans would would allow you to adjust the flow & temperatures based on seasonal needs.
Just my opinion,
KaptJaq
Exactly. Venting warm heated air to the outside is not a solution. OK temporarily to see the effects but you would end up with a colder house overall.
My range hood doesn't vent outside, I could probably rig something up for a test tho. The vent I show on the drawing is my proposed location, no level to level vents are currently installed. The fan symbolin the dining is a small honeywell on the floor blowing into stove room, I have it back about 4-5 ft from the opening, it makes the TP stand into the dining room so i know air is moving, just not enough. The vent s I was going to use are the Tjernlund airshare level to level, they say they are 75 cfm and quiet. Master bedroom one moving hot air from stove room up, should the 3rd bedroom one blow down, or up? Would a gravity vent do justice on that end? Thanks for the great advice, Just want to try to get it right the first time as I'm not handy patching carpet! I can patch drywall all day but floors not so much.
Even with fans it will be a project. Warm air distribution in a hot air system is normally done with ductwork and a very large squirrel cage fan in the heating appliance along with a return air system to get good results. Floor vents and small fans will give some relief but dont expect dramatic changes.
Might need a few small electric heaters for the coldest rooms especially in the bathroom.
Might need a few small electric heaters for the coldest rooms especially in the bathroom.
In some cases, where the house is fairly open, or airflow is linear, you can work with natural convection. ie - in my case, stove is at one end of the house, hot air flows out across the ceiling to the other end of the house and keeps everything relatively warm.
In your case, the stove is more in the middle of the house, you need heat to move in two directions from that room (kitchen/dining + family) plus you want it to go upstairs and then go in two additional directions. You might be better off to just mix the air up and try to divert it where you want with multiple small fans. I don't think natural convection is going to cover everywhere you want heat.
Also, you might need more heat. In the current state, you aren't really getting heat to other rooms, yet the stove room is only 82. That is not a lot of heat to be spread out to the rest of the house. Just averaging the temps of all rooms, I come up with 66ºF. Obviously that is a pretty rough method, but it does give some idea of what the temp would be if all was spread out evenly through the house.
In your case, the stove is more in the middle of the house, you need heat to move in two directions from that room (kitchen/dining + family) plus you want it to go upstairs and then go in two additional directions. You might be better off to just mix the air up and try to divert it where you want with multiple small fans. I don't think natural convection is going to cover everywhere you want heat.
Also, you might need more heat. In the current state, you aren't really getting heat to other rooms, yet the stove room is only 82. That is not a lot of heat to be spread out to the rest of the house. Just averaging the temps of all rooms, I come up with 66ºF. Obviously that is a pretty rough method, but it does give some idea of what the temp would be if all was spread out evenly through the house.
I am starting to wonder whether you really have a problem with hot air distribution or more with lack of insulation. 82 F in the stove room sounds great but if you take that across even just your lower floor you end up with maybe 68 to 70 F total and we have not touched the upstairs yet. In addition, warm air seems to be flowing into the dining room but can barely keep it warm. That suggests you are losing quite a bit of it somewhere else. Did you ever think about an energy audit?
P.S. Just saw that Corey had the same idea.
I know the house could use some work as far as sealing up, only been in it for just under 2 years. Never thought of an audit, I will look into it. Also noted that the Acclaim needs to go, I havn't been pushing it, only burning maple, but its small and I'm already tired of the down draft design, seems I'm always taping the air up or down. I bought it before finind this place and honestly didn't think about firebox size just if it would fit, I was mostly excited to have a house big enough for a stove but have quickly figued out this is way diferent from the pre EPA stuff my parents had as I grew up, heck of a learning curve for me. Plus side is I built the hearth knowing I'd want a bigger unit and the Wife has now felt what wood heat feels like and when i mentioned a larger stove no contest was given! So I will work on moving the heat I have and trading stoves
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
well if you are just over 1700 I would expect you should be able to heat the downstairs without difficulty if you can maintain appropriate airflow. you shouldn't have to deal with a 66 degree dining room when the farther away family room is 72 degrees. The acclaim should be able to do a good job with the bottom floor unless you have super leaky/drafty windows and inadequate wall insulation.
The upstairs is a different matter. It really isn't easy to get air to go upstairs with a closed off stairway even if you have a single vent installed. I think it will take more than a properly placed fan to get air moving upstairs as in possibly a register in the family room, main bed room, and 3rd bedroom. Can you move or install a second register in the main bedroom but this time directly over where the stove is? You will probably need a another register in the 3rd bedroom as well. And even then the air won't passively move through those vents...The vents should be combined with overhead ceiling fans... All of this is a lot of work, and installing registers means adding to code fire protection (fire dampers) in the registers.
The upstairs is a different matter. It really isn't easy to get air to go upstairs with a closed off stairway even if you have a single vent installed. I think it will take more than a properly placed fan to get air moving upstairs as in possibly a register in the family room, main bed room, and 3rd bedroom. Can you move or install a second register in the main bedroom but this time directly over where the stove is? You will probably need a another register in the 3rd bedroom as well. And even then the air won't passively move through those vents...The vents should be combined with overhead ceiling fans... All of this is a lot of work, and installing registers means adding to code fire protection (fire dampers) in the registers.
I think the biggest problem with the dining room/kitchen is the door way is only 30"wide while the family room is 50" and taller since that room has cathedral celing in it. I can pull the trim on that 30" and see about widining it but its load bearing ballon framed so that could get huge. This house has been added on twice. kit/dining area was origional, then the stove room/office and finally previous owner did the family room (only 1 story) and I finished it, hence why I made the opening bigger. I havn't yet installed any registers and I may pull back the carpet and cut a small temp hole to see if it helps first before i pull power to it. I'm convinced it will as my furnace woks this way, there are no returns upstairs just wild down the stair way. In fact there is only 3 heat registers up there, one in the hall by the staircase, one bathroom, and one bed room 3 and it heats fine. This house is old enough it prob had floor vents back in the day! So, I have plenty of work to do, again I thank you all for the help, any other fourm would have said "use the search"!
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