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Posted By clambdin,
Sep 30, 2007 at 1:25 AM
I am considering buying one and would like to hear any pro`s and con`s ??
A local dealer who I speak with regularly sells lots of Napoleans; they are high quality stoves.Last year he burned a 1900 to keep the snow off a large greenhouse roof...I saw the stove one day jammed full of softwood....stovetop thermometer reading just under 900*!When I asked him about overfiring it,he said"naw,I burn her like that all the time."Right or wrong that stove was used in that fashion all season;now I don't know if he warped the guts out of that stove or not, but it's gotta be fairly rugged to have lasted even one burning season IMO.
That is to funny, sounds like the way I treat my PE summit 900+ degrees all winter actually, my fiancee is buying the napoleon for her house It sounds like a good stove for the money ! thanks for the reply !
The Napoleans also have a unique secondary manifold which runs perpendicular to regular style burn tubes;it creates a kind of flame vortex at the top of the box.
Interesting since Napoleon is one of the only makers that actually puts an over-fire temp in the manual. 700 degrees. They say operating over that can result in steel distortion and damage.
Yup They over fire easy. That factory air stop minimum just lets here flame on. Stack temps through the roof. I kept lookin for air leaks as mine would go runaway with every large load. Did it from day one. THe steel wool would decinergrate in the baffle plate every season. Re brick the upper end every second season. I layed it to rest in its 5th season. I use it to pre heat my shed when I need to take the quad out @ -30c to plow snow Off the drive way. HMMMMMM Maybe thats why my signature is jaded. :exclaim:
Thanks for all the responses! I am now concerned with the overfireing issue. How much maintenance this will require to prevent problems? I don't know if this would be a problem or not. Some people have had a Napoleon w/o any problems. I guess I'll just have to buy one!
I have the Napoleon 1100, same design as the 1400 & 1900. I haven’t really had an over firing problem, the manual does say do not go over 700 degrees, I have gotten up to almost 800 degrees a few time with no adverse affects, I always try to achieve 500 to 600 degrees. I have been very happy with it so far.
I just bought one (Napoleon 1900). Installed it yesterday in about 2 hours. Its been burning constantly since then and yes, I can see how over fires could ocurr. Still its far better than the 1997 VC Catalytic Encore I replaced with it.
I have a 4000 square foot house and so far its doing a fine job of heating it. Of course, I live in the California wine country where the temperatures hover at about 50 most of the winter.
I have had it for such a short time that all I can say is that it puts out far more heat than the VC and all four of my cats are afraid of it. Assembly and installation was a breeze. Looks nice with the gold webbed door. I also purchased the cooking trivet which gets up to 550 degrees - easily hot enough to boil artichokes/spaghetti, cook chestnuts, or reduce turkey bone broth.
I burn everything from oak, eucalyptus, acacia, pine, maple, birch, cherry, apricot, grape vine.
I have a 1400 that is suited for my digs... 1800 sq ft, reasonably insulated tho built in 1908, it has its drafty moments. Climate not too bad on front range Colorado tho can get chilly, sub zero, now and then, mostly single digits to 30s-40s. Does fine. No overfiring issue here.
Have learned how to manage wood, wood types, loading the firebox to gain certain types of burn, and several other techniqes that work when running in 50 degree weather, 20 degree, or -10. Am quite happy with mine, having learned how to manage it. Am glad I did not opt for the 1900. Suspect it would have been too much for this place...
Cons would be the learning curve, true for any stove. I was also bemused about ash management until I gained clean burns. Between that and a nifty technique to manage the little I do get, got over that speed bump too. A no brainer for the experienced types here, but a few weeks ago I discovered why a blower matters. Once I got that going, was amazed that I didn't do it sooner. Also a nice feature are the side shields. It can be humming along and the sides generally can remain reasonable to the touch. Overall am pretty happy with Napoleon.
Well, Its been 2 weeks since I put in the Napoleon stove. Tonight its going to get down to the 30s (Farenheight). Thats cold by California standards. I have been burning non stop for these two weeks and am confident I can keep the whole house at 67 degrees regardless of how cold it gets outside.
I have had no problems so far - after burning about 1/3 of a cord. The kids, how ever have been able to damage the yarn gasket by the door arm. They turned it too far in the counter clock wise direction. This is a minor thing which I can fix but it would be better if the door arm were designed to stop after rotation to the 11:00 position.
My wife just came in and thanked me for making the house so nice and warm. The cats are used to it by now also.
Congratulations Scott. That is a big serious heater. Good to hear that it's working well for you. Post a picture if you can.
I've got 1100. see my pics in my "numbers" thread.... the fire tempis over 900
Where are you measuring Jake? That temp is too high for safe continuous operation.
Here are the pictures of my Napoleon 1900. Click on the yellow button which says "View Photos"
I think I have the thermometers in the correct place. But please correct me if I am wrong.
Here are pictures of my old Vermont castings encore.
Didn't quite answer the question. What are the stove top temps? From the link it looks more like 549 degrees, not 900. Is that so?
HeatsTwice, have you tried placing the thermometer on the center trivet for comparison temps?
BTW, unless I'm reading the manual wrong, the stove appears to be about 9" too close to the wall. It needs to have 12" back clearance.
Be Green it is about 550 on the front by the thermometer.
He is taking the temp through the glass into the fire.
I think he has an insert so stove top temp may be kinda hard.
Yes, you're right Dan, I should have said stove face in this case. It was the running the stove at 900 comment that concerned me. That isn't a good day to day practice. Reading back now I see he said "fire temp" but very, very few people measure their stove temp that way. We've heard tell that these stove can overfire and run hot. I didn't want the temp to mislead anyone. Sounds like Jake is doing just fine with his stove.
I'll recheck the manual, but I dont think it specified whether the overfire spec was for top or fire itself.
I think its interestig to see a 400 degree diff between the 2
Yes, I think BB posted today that fire box temp is around double the stovetop temp. I don't know if Napoleon posted an overfire spec. Operating temp is for the stove top.
"Maximum heat for minimum fuel (optimum burn) occurs when the stove top temperature beneath the trivet is between 500°F (260°C) and 600°F (315°C)."
When I put the thermometer on the trivet it registers 30 degrees lower than where you see it in my photos.
Regarding the stoves back clearance. Well I checked all of this out before installing the stove and this is the path of my reasoning.
1) On page 5 of the installation manule just below Figure 4B and the single wall chimey connector minimum clearance guide lines it says:
"Clearances can be reduced with shielding acceptable to local authorities. Reduced insdtallation must comply with NFPA211 or CAN/CSA-B365."
2) Table 22.214.171.124 describes the NFPA211 Reduction of Appliance Clearance with Specified Forms of Protections. This table can be found at this location: See chart below
Herein is described section "(f)" where 1/2 inch thick noncombustible insulation board with ventilated air space Maximume allowable Reduction in Clearance percentile is f.
3) I have constructed the wall behind the stove to consist of first 2x4 vertical studs placed 16 inch on center. Over this I have placed shiething of noncombustable cement board as found locally to be wonderboard. Then there is a 2 inch ventelation space followed by another sheithing of cement board.
4) Because of the presents of this ventilated noncombustable wall construction, the equation found in the "Notes" subsection 2 is used to calculate the minimum acceptable clearance. This works out to 4 inches.
5) Since the stove is already 4 inches from the non combustable wall, and since the ventilation space is 2 inches, my clearance to combustables is 6 inches - 2 inches more than it has to be.
6) All of the above puts the single wall stove pipe at 10.5 inches from combustables.
I'm an engineer and frightened to death of burning down my house. But I think its done right.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Ah, good to know. I was looking at the wall and thought it was a standard sheet rock wall. I'm used to seeing Durock cement board. There maybe an oversight here unless I am not seeing it. The code says "ventilated air space". How are the heatshield cavities ventilated? What was used to shim the final outside layer and create the 2" air space?
Yes you are correct. I used Durock cement board - I had forgotten its name until you mentioned it. I built the wall 5 years ago. The heatshield cavities are ventilated as per code which states that 1 inch ventilation holes at the top and bottom of the wall must comprise no less than 50 percent of the horizontal distance along the top and bottom. Basically, there are holes on the top and bottom of the wall which are 1 inch tall and cumulatively 3 feet long. These I broke up into 1 foot lengths distributed evenly across the run. The totally horizontal run of the wall is 5'. Cold air is sucked in the bottom and pushed out the top by convection. This cools the ventilation space.
To shim between the two Durock shield, I used 2"x2" scraps of Durock stacked up three times and distributed 12" on center horizontally and vertically. I first screwed these "stand offs" to the first sheet of Durock (connected to the 2x4 studs) then I screwed on the outer wall into these stand offs. I used stainless steel wood deck screws. Since I know the "stand offs" are 12" x 12" apart, blind connection of the outer wall to the inner wall through them was possible.
Hope this helps.