Any plumbers in the house?

[bfunk13]

Came home from camping to find the basement ceiling falling down under the upstairs toilet

I removed the toilet and found the closet flange broken.
The old flange goes on the outside of 4" pvc, i found one that fits inside.
The existing flange sits about 1/4" below floor level.
Can i just go inside without removing the suspect flange?
I tried it and it seems like it will work, but i cannot get down to floor level, riding about 1/4" higher than tile.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Can the old flange be carefully removed? You need to carefully remove the outside ring of the flange and then trimcut the stub flush. Then your plan sounds like it will work.

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This video is for removing an inside flange, but the procedure is similar. He gives some good tips while chipping out the old flange.

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[CaptSpiff]

This calls for a photo (1000 words thing). You have it easy because you can access from below and topside.

I assume the PVC broke away from the metal ring which screwed into the subfloor. That old metal ring sat about 1/4 " below tile floor level. Now you are dropping a 3" into & over the broken 4", but the 3" flange is resting on top of the tile (which sometimes causes the bowl to rock).

Since you have access via the broken sheetrock below, why not cut the old 4" pvc at the next straight vertical or horizontal section, and mate up all new? You may need to chip away some of the tile to fit the new PVC flange, or buy the metal flange which is usually smaller. Good luck

 

[bfunk13]

I have tried to cut, chip and pry.
That sucker is in there!
My job just got bigger as i found the tile starting to raise.
I am pretty good with tile so i need to get this fixed first.
I think your idea about going in from the bottom might be easiest.

 

[begreen]

In the second video he shows how to remove. He smashed the flange with a hammer. Then you need to get the lip flush with the subfloor. Maybe use a grinder carefully?

 

[CaptSpiff]

Great photo!

In your OP you said you had one of these ??

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=253221-138-435033

If the male piece of the new closet flange gets a 1/2" of bite inside the 4" riser pipe, then you're good to prime & glue.

If less than 1/2" of overlap, you need to trim away the ring of the old CF. The best tool for that is one of the new Vibe Cutting tools:

http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-multifunction-power-tool-67537.html

Or a Dremmel rotory cutter.

Either will cut the PVC like butter.

 

[bfunk13]

Thanks begreen and Capt!
I found out what my problem was, i had the wrong flange, it had a lip on it that was keeping me too high.
I went back to the hardware store and found one that looks like your link Capt. Fits perfect and i should have an inch to glue too.
First i need to fix the tile. What a pain! Thanks guys

 

[begreen]

Yea! Hope this is finished soon and not the only toilet in the house.

 

[CaptSpiff]

Just an extra comment, that failure of the PVC keyway is very common. I found it's either from over tightening the hold-downs, or from the floor settling and the bowl developing a side to side rock. The latter is even more likely on a tile floor, so I usually mix up a cup of Portland Cement and butter the bottom of the bowl. Makes for a solid seat, even if the tile is uneven. Since you're doing the tile, you can probably butter on some leftover grout.

 

[bfunk13]

Yea! Hope this is finished soon and not the only toilet in the house.

Haha, luckily it is not the only one in the house.
My 9 year old keeps asking when it will be fixed.
Tired of going to the basement

 

[bfunk13]

Just an extra comment, that failure of the PVC keyway is very common. I found it's either from over tightening the hold-downs, or from the floor settling and the bowl developing a side to side rock. The latter is even more likely on a tile floor, so I usually mix up a cup of Portland Cement and butter the bottom of the bowl. Makes for a solid seat, even if the tile is uneven. Since you're doing the tile, you can probably butter on some leftover grout.

I can see where it failed. Seems the inner mount ones will solve the problem.
I got the tile set and drying. I have some plumbers putty and planned on making a rope of it on the bottom of the toilet, then setting it down and trimming excess.
just to make up for any unevenness. think?

 

[BrotherBart]

I replaced all three of our toilets three weeks ago and can't stop looking up at the downstairs ceiling every time I am walking through the rooms.

 

[bfunk13]

I replaced all three of our toilets three weeks ago and can't stop looking up at the downstairs ceiling every time I am walking through the rooms.

I am sure i will do the same!

 

[CaptSpiff]

I got the tile set and drying. I have some plumbers putty and planned on making a rope of it on the bottom of the toilet, then setting it down and trimming excess. just to make up for any unevenness. think?

Yup, I've used that, but it takes a long time to set up, and has failed me when the rocking was bad.

I incorrectly said I use Portland Cement, when I meant that I use Plaster of Paris for the 10-15 minute set time. I use the same sealer as for the grout.

 

[Highbeam]

What about those plastic wedges. My toilet rocks and I didn't use anything under the toilet, it's right on the tile.

 

[CaptSpiff]

What about those plastic wedges. My toilet rocks and I didn't use anything under the toilet, it's right on the tile.

You mean the big orange ones with the Husqvarna symbol on em?

"Is that the toilet or roller coaster ride?" my old boss once asked me.

For an uneven tile job I used to use Popsicle sticks, then he showed me that with 3 chop-sticks he could level any bowl.

They taper from thick to thin. They carry the weight until the plaster set up. Then pull em (or push em in) and fill the 3 spaces with the rest of the plaster. Smooth it and it's hard to diff between the porcelain and plaster.