Any pond management people in here?

[GrumpyDad]

I have a 1/4 acre pond and am looking for advice on how best to get rid of a very thick and deep layer of muck. The option to dredge would smell up everyone for a mile and would kill a large amount of frogs and lillypads. Was hoping someone had experience with this. I'd like to get the depth that was there long ago when it supposedly held trout through winter. Right now only a small section is about six feet deep the rest is maybe four to one foot deep only.
The feeder line that fed the pond from a spring is broken but I could rectify that in one weekend. I'm otherwise getting most of my water from run off. I also suspect a neighbor has their sewage running into my pond but am not sure how to prove it. I'm sure the line is buried and seeps in. No obvious green areas but I see a dry spot during the summer that I might dig up and check. My pond butts up against a common area right away as well as the tip of another neighbors property as well. This has been there for 70 years like this.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Do you have a local ag college nearby? The fisheries guys really get off on those projects and it could even be a project they take on for free to give the students experience.

Before spending big money on something like that I’d try to correct the course of the silt up.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Do you have a local ag college nearby? The fisheries guys really get off on those projects and it could even be a project they take on for free to give the students experience.

Before spending big money on something like that I’d try to correct the course of the silt up.

It's not a bad idea to check.

 

[FramerJ]

Also check with your state conservation dept or dept of natural resources if you have one. The DNR here in MO helps out with those types of things I believe. Just a thought.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Also check with your state conservation dept or dept of natural resources if you have one. The DNR here in MO helps out with those types of things I believe. Just a thought

Also check with your state conservation dept or dept of natural resources if you have one. The DNR here in MO helps out with those types of things I believe. Just a thought.

Bringing in the state ....not not never ever a good idea. At least where I'm at.

 

[peakbagger]

Wait long enough a few cattails start growing and it becomes a wetland and then you cannot do anything.

 

[FramerJ]

Bringing in the state ....not not never ever a good idea. At least where I'm at.

I gotcha

 

[farmwithjunk]

How deep is the silt?

I have a 1/2 acre that I've worked at with a 23,000 gallon an hour full trash pump. Works well for sucking up the muck but you need somewhere to pump it. Dewatering bags would work if you cant put it down the outflow. This is incredibly slow though but since your pond isn't very deep at the moment the shallow spots would be easily manageable. This does not stir up the water/toxic gasses so I didn't have to worry about a fish kill. My pond is 10' deep in the middle but has 3' of muck in some places.

A long reach excavator is probably the the answer but thats some serious $$$$.

 

[GrumpyDad]

How deep is the silt?

I have a 1/2 acre that I've worked at with a 23,000 gallon an hour full trash pump. Works well for sucking up the muck but you need somewhere to pump it. Dewatering bags would work if you cant put it down the outflow. This is incredibly slow though but since your pond isn't very deep at the moment the shallow spots would be easily manageable. This does not stir up the water/toxic gasses so I didn't have to worry about a fish kill. My pond is 10' deep in the middle but has 3' of muck in some places.

A long reach excavator is probably the the answer but thats some serious $$$$.

I dont know, Id say at least 4' on the sides maybe more. It's that bad. I was told that people used to swim and fish in there, along the sides. There's NO WAY you are doing that now. That water STINKS. I did have a comet that was picked up by an eagle at another pond and dropped in mine. It survived two winters. I was so happy to see it there the next year. There were a couple of snapping turtles in there, one that was probably the largest turtle Ive ever ever seen. Residents there said that thing has been in there for many years. One year we had a bad flash flood, the creek nearby became a white water river and overflowed its banks, washing into my pond and filling it up with crap so quickly it looked like you were filling a small cup of water from a bathtub nozzle. The pond overflowed quickly washing against my cabin and shed. Telephone poles were floating by like rafts on a raging river, 2' from my cabin. Ever since then, the silt is thinker, and I have never seen the turtles since . Nor the comet.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I dont know, Id say at least 4' on the sides maybe more. It's that bad. I was told that people used to swim and fish in there, along the sides. There's NO WAY you are doing that now. That water STINKS. I did have a comet that was picked up by an eagle at another pond and dropped in mine. It survived two winters. I was so happy to see it there the next year. There were a couple of snapping turtles in there, one that was probably the largest turtle Ive ever ever seen. Residents there said that thing has been in there for many years. One year we had a bad flash flood, the creek nearby became a white water river and overflowed its banks, washing into my pond and filling it up with crap so quickly it looked like you were filling a small cup of water from a bathtub nozzle. The pond overflowed quickly washing against my cabin and shed. Telephone poles were floating by like rafts on a raging river, 2' from my cabin. Ever since then, the silt is thinker, and I have never seen the turtles since . Nor the comet.

If the muck is mostly free of debris that will clog the intake screen on a trash pump I think it would work well for you if you dont mind spending the time. I have 75' of intake hose and 300' of discharge hose. I didn't get to spend much time but probably cleared 1/10 an acre over several days worth but some of that was in over 6' of water. I'd dive down, push the intake into the muck then hang onto the intake line and move it a bit. You can feel it pull itself down through the muck.

Your shallow areas would be easy to dredge out with a good pump assuming you have somewhere to let the discharge out. Figure out a grand on pump and hoses. You'd be looking at 5-10x that on an operator to dig it out.

 

[GrumpyDad]

If the muck is mostly free of debris that will clog the intake screen on a trash pump I think it would work well for you if you dont mind spending the time. I have 75' of intake hose and 300' of discharge hose. I didn't get to spend much time but probably cleared 1/10 an acre over several days worth but some of that was in over 6' of water. I'd dive down, push the intake into the muck then hang onto the intake line and move it a bit. You can feel it pull itself down through the muck.

Your shallow areas would be easy to dredge out with a good pump assuming you have somewhere to let the discharge out. Figure out a grand on pump and hoses. You'd be looking at 5-10x that on an operator to dig it out.

My operator works cheap but safe access due to hillside precludes us from going this route. I would need a much larter machine and to your point it would cost a ton. The neighbors had that done, no idea what they paid but they just sold their place for 800k so I don't think they are worried about money. Mine is a Frankenstein smaller cabin nowhere near the worth. For me I'd love to put fish in there but wife loves frogs and we are overloaded with frogs for sure. I'd have to carefully manage the eco system there if I did bass and sunfish or only trout if I restore the natural cold water system. We are inundated with lily pads as well. Too many on one side. Wife loves the white and pink flowers though. People love to walk along the pond and look at the lillypads and frogs. They also literally walk right up to my back deck. Nothing like standing in your boxers in the morning near the window only to see a family of renters from next door using your nets to catch frogs and staring in your windows.
Then the dog tries to go through the window after them. It's great.

 

[semipro]

You might look into an aeration system. Oxygenation of the water may aid with the aerobic decomposition of organic matter. The stink you mention is likely due to anaerobic decomposition. Aeration using a bubbler from the bottom will also prevent stratification of the pond and the low oxygen zones that result.

 

[Newbie78]

Semipro nailed it.



Drain it, re-dig it and then aerate. Windmill is best if you have somewhat reliable wind. Use a diaphragm diffuser. The smaller the bubbles, the better. Maximum surface area of bubbles...aerate, aerate, aerate.

get the biggest machine possible to dig it. Dredging is best, but a great big hoe will work, as long as the bottom is dried out. You may have to spend a summer without your pond...be prepared for what will look like a mess to start with. All of the muck, once exposed to the air will most likely end up as rich, beautiful soil. i wouldn't give two craps about a temporary smell as the end result will be well worth it.

it is possible to dig with a small machine, but it will take FOREVER and the result will not likely be as good.

all of the flora and fauna will come back. As it stands, they will eventually die/leave anyway.

PS, I have experience with this.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Semipro nailed it.



Drain it, re-dig it and then aerate. Windmill is best if you have somewhat reliable wind. Use a diaphragm diffuser. The smaller the bubbles, the better. Maximum surface area of bubbles...aerate, aerate, aerate.

get the biggest machine possible to dig it. Dredging is best, but a great big hoe will work, as long as the bottom is dried out. You may have to spend a summer without your pond...be prepared for what will look like a mess to start with. All of the muck, once exposed to the air will most likely end up as rich, beautiful soil. i wouldn't give two craps about a temporary smell as the end result will be well worth it.

it is possible to dig with a small machine, but it will take FOREVER and the result will not likely be as good.

all of the flora and fauna will come back. As it stands, they will eventually die/leave anyway.

PS, I have experience with this.

That's what I was thinking, we may have to drain it and keep at it to keep it dry. The muck is pretty think though, Im wondering how long that would take to dry up. My wife will be upset that all the frogs wouldnt have a home, and the lily pads would get mangled to the point that we likely wouldnt have anything left.

 

[Newbie78]

It will all come back in time. At this point your pond is doomed to eventually become dry land anyway. I don't know your soil or your climate, but potentially it is unlikely that any equipment can travel on your pond bottom even after it is drained for months. Draining it does allow you to have a look at what you are up against, which is probably more than 4 feet of muck. Who knows? You need a place to put the muck (which is probably "free", rich soil, btw)

also, you do not want your run-off water to directly enter the dugout. This causes rapid buildup of sediment at every runoff. Ideally (and necessarily) you need your dugout to be a "backwater" that fills from the edge of a runoff and when the natural level is achieved, the rest of the runoff just runs away.

renovating a pond is a big job ($$$) which, if done correctly will last for many, many years and if not will last only a short time. Unless you have your own gear, or have the time to pick away at it with a spoon instead of a shovel (which is possible, but painstakingly slow - and not necessarily cheaper or satisfactory in the end). You could change it up and leave some of the wetland while digging some of it much deaper. This will promote diversity and faster regeneration of the natural balance.

most important; aeration and water diversion to make your pond an eddy/backwater (i am only assuming that your runoff just charges straight into the dugout/pond..?)

I just had a thought..I have no idea, but maybe there's a "super sucker" machine that can just suck the bottom of your pond clean right through the water. Idk.

do some research.


o, and perhaps you have room to make a micro-pond somewhere to hopefully salvage some of the flora and fauna to re-introduce to your pond once it it fixed.

 

[GrumpyDad]

You might look into an aeration system. Oxygenation of the water may aid with the aerobic decomposition of organic matter. The stink you mention is likely due to anaerobic decomposition. Aeration using a bubbler from the bottom will also prevent stratification of the pond and the low oxygen zones that result.

I did consider this as well. And it might be something I do first for awhile , maybe a few years, prior to the nuclear option of draining and digging. Nothing is cheap though. Fountains and decent aerators all seem pricey. I do have power very close by so at least I wouldn't need to get too crazy with wiring.

 

[GrumpyDad]

It will all come back in time. At this point your pond is doomed to eventually become dry land anyway. I don't know your soil or your climate, but potentially it is unlikely that any equipment can travel on your pond bottom even after it is drained for months. Draining it does allow you to have a look at what you are up against, which is probably more than 4 feet of muck. Who knows? You need a place to put the muck (which is probably "free", rich soil, btw)

also, you do not want your run-off water to directly enter the dugout. This causes rapid buildup of sediment at every runoff. Ideally (and necessarily) you need your dugout to be a "backwater" that fills from the edge of a runoff and when the natural level is achieved, the rest of the runoff just runs away.

renovating a pond is a big job ($$$) which, if done correctly will last for many, many years and if not will last only a short time. Unless you have your own gear, or have the time to pick away at it with a spoon instead of a shovel (which is possible, but painstakingly slow - and not necessarily cheaper or satisfactory in the end). You could change it up and leave some of the wetland while digging some of it much deaper. This will promote diversity and faster regeneration of the natural balance.

most important; aeration and water diversion to make your pond an eddy/backwater (i am only assuming that your runoff just charges straight into the dugout/pond..?)

Water enters the pond via a hillside. And what appears to be a very small natural spring under an oak tree. Runoff is via a 6" pipe that goes underground to a stream about 30' away. Most of the summer the water gets to a low level measured by a rock which is probably 6" lower than normal. Then fall hits and rain and runoff increase the depth of the pond back to normal.
Right now at the tail end of the pond where it is most shallow during the summer there will only be muck showing. An area about twenty by twenty. There is an island in middle with about twenty trees on it tightly packed. I need to pick which ones to keep and cut away the rest. As much as I like the green of the spruce, I know their life span is very short. All of the trees are at best 15 to 20 years old. Those are probably contributing to water consumption.

 

[Newbie78]

Sounds beautiful!

pics?

and the spring could be temporarily problematic and potentially vulnerable during a pond renovation. Running water can move and change direction quite easily.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Sounds beautiful!

pics?

and the spring could be temporarily problematic and potentially vulnerable during a pond renovation. Running water can move and change direction quite easily.

Oddly enough I can't find any that show the entire thing. I swear Google deletes photos from my phone.

 

[Newbie78]

Nice!

I had another thought. When you get aeration, make sure that you protect all of your lines with something to prevent chewing by critters. I haven't generally done a good job of that and occasionally it has been problematic.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Nice!

I had another thought. When you get aeration, make sure that you protect all of your lines with something to prevent chewing by critters. I haven't generally done a good job of that and occasionally it has been problematic.

oh, well there are a couple of snapping turtles in there. One is very large although he hasnt been seen in quite awhile. We had a comet fish (orange trout like fish) living in there that must have been dropped by a bird from another pond. He lasted two years. The snapping turtle kept trying to find him. Comet would be on one side, snapping turtle the other, snapping turtle would disappear, then shortly after the fish would disappear, then you would see the snapping turtle where the comet was, and the coment where the snapping turtle was. It was a comical thing to sit and watch with a beer in hand.

 

[Newbie78]

I have a few diaphragm diffusers similar to this. It's just a piece of rubber with tiny slits in it that snaps over a plastic disc. The picture does not show the air-entry ferrule on the bottom of the disc. A bit of plastic pipe, some connectors, hoseclamps, and a small bucket of concrete along with an air pump and you have quality aeration. Mine have lasted almost 30 years at the bottom of several dugouts. I have no idea if the one in this pic will be that durable. Part of my father-in-law's business (long retired) was supplying aeration system components to sewage treatment plants, fisheries, etc. When I was dreaming up some way to pump air into a dugout using government information as a guide he said NO NO NO!, I will send you these things...

 

[semipro]

I did consider this as well. And it might be something I do first for awhile , maybe a few years, prior to the nuclear option of draining and digging. Nothing is cheap though. Fountains and decent aerators all seem pricey. I do have power very close by so at least I wouldn't need to get too crazy with wiring.

Link to an aeration installation on Youtube.

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[Newbie78]

They have no idea what they are doing wrt the mechanics of aeration.. They may figure it out.

the most important part of the system is the diffuser! You NEED to have tiny microbubbles so that the atmosphere has mega-contact with the water in order for it to become incorporated. obviously the tiny bubbles rise, so they will have the most affect in the deepest water..

NO, NO, NO!

 

[GrumpyDad]

They have no idea what they are doing wrt the mechanics of aeration.. They may figure it out.

the most important part of the system is the diffuser! You NEED to have tiny microbubbles so that the atmosphere has mega-contact with the water in order for it to become incorporated. obviously the tiny bubbles rise, so they will have the most affect in the deepest water..

NO, NO, NO!

kinda like the airstones you would buy to add oxygen to a fishtank or to keep bait alive. Same theory. Bad gas goes out, good oxygen goes in, helps with the overall microbes trying to disolve the much as well.

I did buy some of those muck tablets. Spread this much per 1/4 acre stuff. I walk around tossing those things in all spring, summer, fall last year and spring,summer this year - finally stopped wasting my time/money. No difference. Reviews were fantastic though, so I thought maybe I would see results. Nope. I have a giant rock in my pond, and it has a valley to it. When the water gets below this valley, at the very end of the pond I will see it dry up to the point that I see the muck. When it's a few inches below this valley in the rock, I see that 20'x20' area of muck at the very narrow edge of the pond. So that's sorta how I measured if it were working. I didnt go through the trouble of getting in the raft and measuring with a pole this year but last year there were no results using the muck pellets.