Ashford combustor replacement

[MTASH]

Hi all, haven't been around here much lately but figured I better check in with the experts on this topic.

My Ashford 30.2 was installed in December 2018. I estimate I have around 17,000 hours on it and I'm starting to notice symptoms of combustor failure, such as visible smoke during a burn and reduced burn times. The attached pics show about 2 hours into a recent burn.

This stove has always been really consistent. Typically when temps are in the 30's daytime and 20's nighttime I can get 20+hour burns but lately I am down around 16 hours. I also had a load stall with a couple partial splits left, which has never happened before. It just doesn't seem as consistent or efficient. The combustor barely stays active for some loads (at the first white tick mark), while it runs up around 11-12 O'clock for others. FWIW I am burning Fir that was CSS in April/May of 2021, typically under 14% or so.

So I've been shopping for a replacement to keep on hand and probably swap this summer. I've been interested in a ceramic based on some past threads here, and I have had plugging issues when occasionally burning Aspen. I also run a 12' stack and it seems the ceramic might flow better, although Midwest disputes this. I did some searching on this forum and found older threads from @Ashful running a prototype ceramic combustor. Are these new ceramics now available? Or do I buy one of these through Midwest? I can also be talked into another steel if it's really the best route to go.

I also attached a pic of my combustor probe - is it time to replace it based on wear or is it just getting broke in?

 

[Highbeam]

Ashford on a 12’ at elevation in MT. Cool that it works. I have a 12’ stack on my princess which was the requirement in 2012 and they now “require” 15’.

That cat meter probe looks great. Check calibration when cold per the manual.

 

[Ashful]

Gonna have to page @BKVP on this, as my old source for combustors was https://www.firecatcombustors.com/, but I see they still only show the steelcat for the Ashford 30. I got my then-prototype ceramic cat directly from BK as a beta tester, and I'm sold on it being better for anyone with a taller chimney (fly ash plugging issue) on an Ashford 30, but I honestly don't know where to buy them. I know @BKVP said they're available now, earlier in this year's BK thread, but I haven't had to go hunting to buy one for one myself yet.

The good news for you is that, with only 12 feet of pipe, it's unlikely you have enough draft to really make problems for the steelcat. I'm running about 30 feet of pipe at only 200 feet elevation, and was seeing draft numbers around 0.21" WC with that rig, when I was having issues with ash plugging my steelcat on that stove. I can't imagine you're anywhere near those numbers with 12 feet of pipe in Montana.

 

[MTASH]

Gonna have to page @BKVP on this, as my old source for combustors was https://www.firecatcombustors.com/, but I see they still only show the steelcat for the Ashford 30. I got my then-prototype ceramic cat directly from BK as a beta tester, and I'm sold on it being better for anyone with a taller chimney (fly ash plugging issue) on an Ashford 30, but I honestly don't know where to buy them. I know @BKVP said they're available now, earlier in this year's BK thread, but I haven't had to go hunting to buy one for one myself yet.

The good news for you is that, with only 12 feet of pipe, it's unlikely you have enough draft to really make problems for the steelcat. I'm running about 30 feet of pipe at only 200 feet elevation, and was seeing draft numbers around 0.21" WC with that rig, when I was having issues with ash plugging my steelcat on that stove. I can't imagine you're anywhere near those numbers with 12 feet of pipe in Montana.

Thanks for chiming in! Even with the short stack, I've plugged my steel cat burning Aspen. It makes really fine ash and a lot of it, but I mostly burn fir and lodgepole so it's not a deal breaker. Mainly I'm interested in draft performance between ceramic and steel. My intuition says ceramic might be better but I could be wrong.

 

[MTASH]

Ashford on a 12’ at elevation in MT. Cool that it works. I have a 12’ stack on my princess which was the requirement in 2012 and they now “require” 15’.

That cat meter probe looks great. Check calibration when cold per the manual.

It works, but I would definitely recommend 15'. The draft gets lazy at >40F, but our small house gets too warm burning at those temps anyway so it's manageable.

 

[BKVP]

The combustor that Ashful beta tested has been used in production for past 2 years.

As for which to purchase, I can only post here the following: It is illegal for a manufacturer to suggest any combustor other than that used in the certification/testing.

I'll leave it there.

As for my KE40, it was tested with both ceramic and metal combustors, allowing us to use or sell either. I sure do like my ceramic combustor.

I'll leave it there.

BKVP

 

[MTASH]

The combustor that Ashful beta tested has been used in production for past 2 years.

Is this particular combustor only available through BK? Besides the KE40, what other models is it currently used in?

 

[BKVP]

Is this particular combustor only available through BK? Besides the KE40, what other models is it currently used in?

We use it across all models....I do not know what is being used/sold by other vendors.

 

[MTASH]

We use it across all models....I do not know what is being used/sold by other vendors.

Okay, so your on-line manuals list a S.CAT203032 for various models. I assume that is the new ceramic cat?

 

[TheElementalCashew]

This is the one that I bought for my Princess. @BKVP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Ashford uses the same size?

 

[MTASH]

This is the one that I bought for my Princess. @BKVP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Ashford uses the same size?

Correct. That is the same one I linked above at Midwest, which is also listed to fit Ashford and other models. Just not sure if that is the updated one or not. Some old models apparently also used a ceramic of the same size...

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Correct. That is the same one I linked above at Midwest, which is also listed to fit Ashford and other models. Just not sure if that is the updated one or not. Some old models apparently also used a ceramic of the same size...

From what BKVP said above, it sounds like it went out of beta testing two years, so unless Midwest Hearth is selling pretty old stock I'd suspect they are the updated model.

 

[BKVP]

Correct.

 

[Ashful]

Correct.

Just to close the loop, and make this crystal clear: the combustor linked below has the "beta 3" wash, indeed making it one of the two with which the Ashford was tested? If so, there might be a pair on order from me, for installation next summer.

Amazon product ASIN B0754MT2NM

 

[BKVP]

If you want the premium V3 coating, which Ashful helped beta test and we use in all production of our stoves, you need to order the combustor from a BK dealer. Yes, you might experience a higher retail price, but not all coatings are V3. You can ask to have the dealer place your order and have it drop shipped to your residence.

I will leave it there.

BKVP

 

[ratsrepus]

check with Midwest or Condor. I didn't see much difference between the steel Vs ceramic in my Ashford.

 

[MTASH]

If you want the premium V3 coating...

It must be premium. The first quote I got is dang near double of what has been linked here. Is it really worth it?

Still awaiting another quote, but the first dealer I contacted is the one I expected to be the best price. And they have it in stock, but I would still need to pay shipping since they are not close enough.

 

[kennyp2339]

It must be premium. The first quote I got is dang near double of what has been linked here. Is it really worth it?

Still awaiting another quote, but the first dealer I contacted is the one I expected to be the best price. And they have it in stock, but I would still need to pay shipping since they are not close enough.

17k happy hours on the original at $215 usd... I think you answered your own question.

 

[MTASH]

17k happy hours on the original at $215 usd... I think you answered your own question.

Yeah, and @Highbeam seems to like his ordinary ceramic, so that's why I'm wondering what is so special about the new V3 coating?

 

[BKVP]

The V3 coating can be applied to either ceramic or metal substrate. So there are two questions being blurred here. Which substrate is desirable and is the premium V3 coating worth the additional cost.

As I posted previously in this discussion, if you want a combustor with V3, you go through a BK dealer. V3 is only available from BK dealers.

 

[Highbeam]

And we don’t know what V3 gets us for this upcharge. Or I haven’t seen the marketing. Is it out? I mean you’re asking people to pay over double for a cat with a different coating when the normal coating has been pretty great.

Will it last twice as long? Efficiency is already superb.

Can anybody help us understand what the benefits are?

 

[BKVP]

You get OEM performance. Owners of stoves with V3 combustors can speak to their own, personal experiences. There are increased amounts of platinum on V3.

How long did an OEM combustor perform versus a replacement from an online seller..let's see if anyone can share their observations. I'm not permitted to "sell" here, that is clear.

 

[Ashful]

I'm nearing the end of season 5 on one of the early V3 ceramic beta tester cats. It has performed very well, having at least 30 cords thru it, with no indication of end of life. Last year, I suppose I got a little more crud out of the chimney than I had the year prior, but since I don't actually weigh the debris, I'm not sure my memory can really be trusted on what I get out of the pipe from one year to the next.

I will say that I put a brand new legacy (Firecat Combustors) Steelcat in my second Ashford 30 on or near the same date, and that one is showing signs it may be near its end, despite having seen maybe only 10 cords over the same span of time, and maybe half the overall hours. Of course, running that stove at roughly half the burn rate, it's going to show symptoms much more acutely than a stove run harder. Put otherwise, if you want to see if your cat performance is diminishing, do it on a 30 hour burn rate, not a 12 hour rate.

So, sorry for being vague, but I think it will take more combustors and more years to come to any conclusion, here. Maybe I'll replace the V3 ceramic with a Firecat or Midwest legacy wash ceramic next, and see if I can offer a more convincing comparison in a few years. Of course, with the V3 going strong, I could probably run that another year or two, as well. 40 cords thru one combustor does seem a realistic possibility, based on where I stand with it, today.

 

[Poindexter]

I guess I won't be chipping in on the V3 coating in a while. I replaced my combustor in ~Oct 2022 and that sucker was MONEY compared to previous cat replacements. All of my previous combustor replacements, including this last one, were OTC at my local BK dealer. I just paid it in the moment given the current price of heating oil.

The one I got in late 2022 is steel, again, and I confirmed at the time 20, 30 and 32 boxes (Princess) all use the same combustor. If I am still on the most recent cat in Jan 2024 it will be starting to pay for itself. If I can get 30 cords through it I will be into 2026/2027 and well past break even on the new higher price.

At the end of the day I know Chris doesn't screw around and the V3 coating will probably be worth the money.

 

[Ashful]

At the end of the day I know Chris doesn't screw around and the V3 coating will probably be worth the money.

If the price is double and the life is double, I guess it's a break-even, with slight advantage of not having to source a new combustor as frequently. Of course, there's the slight risk that any damage (eg. dropping it while cleaning) can break the ratio.

The trouble for me is that I'm comparing two different coats (V3 vs. legacy), on two different substrates (steel vs. ceramic), in two different installs (15 vs. 30 ft chimneys), in stoves run at two vastly different rates (16+/- loads per week at 4 - 12 hour burns vs. 5+/- loads per week at 24 - 30 hour burns). It hardly makes for a proper controlled experiment, let alone a double blind one. I'd need a minimum 2^4 = 16 of each combustor to run any sort of controlled experiment on these four variables, and really 32 to do it double-blind. If they last ~5 years each, I won't live long enough to give you the results, having only two stoves and doing the comparisons serially.