Avalon overfeeding

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Detroitdan

New Member
Jan 9, 2011
6
So NH
Hello all, newby here with problems. I did a search and didnt see exactly what I'm experiencing. I own a Harman Invincible insert that heated my house for 10 years reliably, couldn't have been happier with it. I just moved a few weeks ago and do not have a fireplace I can insert it in. There is however a chimney with woodstove setup. I tried to use the Harman, but it was a nightmare to try to adapt it to work, and I was going to have a metal shop fab me a metal box for the back, but my stove dealer told me not to, said it's not a good idea and not up to code. So I took him at his word and found a cheap used freestanding unit by Avalon. I have no idea what model or year it is, but it looks old. It lit up and worked so I brought it home. I had installed my first couple pellet stoves but this was going to be a pain, so I had a stove company install it for me. They basically just had to make all the vent hookups, which they did.
This stove was packed full of soot and ash, looked as though no one had ever cleaned it right. I vacced it all out with the shopvac, oiled the blower motor that was slow and squeaky, and all was well for a week. Ran great. Then the auger motor quit, so had my stove guy come replace it. First thing that happened was the new auger motor bent the stop out of the way and spun around and got the wiring wrapped all around it. He came and fixed that, said the new motors are so much more powerful it bends the old stop. Suggested I drill a hole in the bottom and run a threaded rod up as a stop. havent done that yet, but I had a wooden block under it as a stop, which worked temporarily.
Next problem is that I had been using up the last of some pellet fuel I got from Tractor Supply Co, I think it was called Instant Heat or Insta Heat. Nice looking, big pellets, worked good in the Harman. Well I switched to a couple bags of the Maines Choice from Lowes because it is cheap and very close by. Pellets are broken into little pieces, but not smashed or full of dust. Stove guy said the bigger pieces are what was jamming the auger and causing the motor to spin and bend the stop. So, the little pieces started overfeeding, at first I thought it was because of the size, but it isn't, it is the auger feeding far too fast. I kept turning it down and down, but it still fed too fast even all the way down. And the feed knob does work, turning it up speeds it even more. So what was happening was the pellets were piling up on the fire, then backing up into the drop chute and completely packing it. I was afraid the fire would climb up the chute and get to the hopper.
I have cleaned it out several times, still can't get it to run reliably. I then switched back to my last bag of the Insta Heat pellets, and guess what, the big pellets are doing he same thing, overfeeding. So it wasn't the little pieces after all.
Lastly, I just went out in the kitchen to look at it, it went out this morning so I was going to let it cool off and try to thoroughly clean it yet again. Then I noticed that the new auger motor has again bent the stop, knocked my little block aside, and spun around again. This time it didn't wrap all the wires because apparently one wire came unplugged and stopped everything. But I can't get the motor to turn back by hand so I can fix the stop.
I think I can fix the stop problem with a threaded rod, but does anyone have any idea about the overfeeding??
Sorry for the long long post. I so appreciate any help you can give me, I am at the end of my rope with this POS. 10 years of hassle free service out of the Harman, and I can't even get 2 weeks out of this Avalon. I only bought it because I thought it was supposed to be a good name, not a cheapy tin big box store unit.
 
First things first, welcome to the forum,

Most cases of pellets feeding too fast is really a case of pellets not burning fast enough due to lack of combustion air.

But just in case please provide the RPM rating of that new auger motor?

Do you have the manual for that stove? If so there is likely a timing chart for the auger, please check the timing.

If they are fine then proceed to locate the damper and open it a bit.

It really would help if you also described your venting starting at the stove and going to and including the termination cap. We need size of pipe, lengths of runs and orientation, and type and number of elbows.

If your place is located in the mountains your elevation would also be of help.
 
Hello

Welcome to the forum.

Smokey is right and that information would help. Also if you can take a pic of the stove and the control board then maybe we can Identify the model and help you further. If we know the model then sometimes the manual can be downloaded for free.

Travis Industries is the manufacturer of Avalon and Lopi stoves. I have an Avalon Astoria and I know that the control board has been updated over the years. They changed the timing of the auger to help with the feeding rate especially on the low heat settings. They also recently designed one control board to fit all their stoves. So an upgrade to a new control board may also help your situation.

Good Luck
 

Attachments

  • PS3PelletStoveBackPlane&Connection 240sc.jpg
    PS3PelletStoveBackPlane&Connection 240sc.jpg
    14.5 KB · Views: 711
  • AvalonAstoriaControlBoardsc.jpg
    AvalonAstoriaControlBoardsc.jpg
    36.1 KB · Views: 717
box the motor came in says one rpm. the control board consists of a small box mounted on the top rear left side facing up. It has a power on/off switch, a start switch, a knob for feed rate and a knob for fan speed. Sounds pretty ancient, huh? I agree the pellets not burning fast enough seems like the obvious solution, and I can't say that I am convinced the airflow is sufficient, however listening and watching the auger work, it seems to be dumping way too much pellets way to fast. If the fire was burning great the pellets would still overwhelm it at that speed and volume.

I had bought a 4 inch vent kit when I was trying to install the Harman, so the installers used that. I have a 3 inch to 4 inch tee right off the back, 4 inch vertical about 5 feet up to a 90, 1 foot to thimble through chimney, maybe another foot to the 90 to the flue, which is 4 inch to the top of the chimney, which might be 8-10 more feet. I haven't figured out yet how to drop the bottom off the tee for cleaning, but it shouldn't be plugged already, I've only run ten bags through it. Not that it was running great for that whole time. The fresh air intake it has on the back is not hooked to outside air, no way does it need to be. That passage appears clear from what I can see of it. I'm going to try to find my wire thingy to stick through there to ensure it's not blocked by anything.

I just cleaned it out again, vacuumed everything I could get to. Emptied the stupid little shallow idiot pan at the bottom, which btw doesn't hold hardly anything. There are four metal flaps that come out around the bottom near the burn pot, cleaned those and vacuumed up the soot. Removed burnpot and scraped it, didn't look like any holes were plugged. I got the motor to move and bent the stop back, drilled a hole beneath it and I'm going to go get a 3/8 bolt with some nuts to build a brace to sit behind the stop and keep it from bending.

No pictures, I'll try to find a pic online that approximates it.

Thanks, Dan
 
here's a picture of the closest thing I could find. Only difference is mine has more of a pedestal type base, not legs like in this picture. Saw a few Avalon woodstoves that look just like my stove, except for having a 6 inch vent on top.
 

Attachments

  • avalon.bmp
    197.8 KB · Views: 1,143
I am the owner of an Avalon Astoria as well this is my 2nd one we love them so much! I agree it sounds like you have a burning problem more than a feeding problem. That Avalon is an older unit than Im used to seeing. Even my older Astoria I bought in 1999 didnt have any problems with over-feeding. How does the flame look when it burning? Is it lazy or burning pretty well?
 
lazy, crappy and the glass gets sooty, but I still cant figure out how that relates to the auger speeding up. As far as I can tell, there's no temp sender or thermostats anywhere, it's just a basic feed speed control and fan blower control.
 
Hello

Does it look anything like the Avalon Astoria 2001-2002 in the pic below?
 

Attachments

  • Astoria2001-2002.jpg
    Astoria2001-2002.jpg
    44.7 KB · Views: 986
In order to tame this beast we need to know what the beast is.

Is there a certification label on the inside of the hopper cover or the outside back or inside right hand panels?

However those three 90 degree bends can cause all kind of burn issues if the stove's combustion fan isn't able to handle the restriction they cause.
 
Hello

I think I found it!! It is an Avalon 900 PS Pellet Stove. See attached picture!


Below is some troubleshooting instructions. Hope this helps?

http://www.ehow.com/how_6620069_troubleshooting-900-ps-pellet-stove.html

Troubleshooting an Avalon 900 PS Pellet Stove
By Cameron Easey, eHow Contributor
updated: June 12, 2010

Pellet stoves are used as an alternative to heating a home with a furnace or a wood stove. One pellet stove that is intended for home use is the Arbor PS 900 that is manufactured by Avalon. This type of stove is a freestanding unit that will require troubleshooting when problems begin to occur.
Difficulty: Moderate
Instructions

Not Enough Air
1.
1

Open the door to the unit and pull out the restrictor.
2.
2

Observe the flame and see if it begins to flare up and become active. An active flame will keep the hole in the firepot clean. Plugged holes can restrict air flow.
3.
3

Turn off the fan and wait for the stove to cool. Clean out all of the ash and debris that is in the firebox.
4.
4

Repeat steps 1 and 2 to see if the stove now gets enough air to get an active flame.
Fault LIght Comes On
5.
1

Open the door to the stove and see if it is out of pellets. Turn off the unit and add more pellets to the stove. Turn on the unit to see if the fault light goes away.
6.
2

Turn off the unit and then turn it back on. If the fault light comes on for only a split second it is part of the normal startup operation of the unit.
7.
3

Turn on the unit and see if it is starting to get warm. The fault light will come on if the heater is not warming after startup.
8.
4

Turn the mode switch on the stove to the "Off" position and then turn off the stove. Turn the stove back on to reset the fault light.

HarmanStoves.comHarmanStoves.com
Save on energy efficient heating stoves with a $1,500 tax credit.

Pellet Stove Installationwww.pelletstoveservice.com
Alternative to Dealer Service Installation - Cleaning - Repairs

Roofing Price Quoteswww.Hip-Home.com/Roofing-Quotes
Post Your Project Free & Get Bids From Local Roofing Pros Today!

Fluke Insulation Testerswww.Fluke.com/Insulation_Testers
Get Quality Insulation Testers. See All Fluke Insulation Products!

Ads by Google
Tips & Warnings

*
The fault light can come on if there is an improper electrical frequency in the wires.


Read more: Troubleshooting an Avalon 900 PS Pellet Stove | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6620069_troubleshooting-900-ps-pellet-stove.html#ixzz1AZUhLZLM
 

Attachments

  • Avalon900PelletStove.jpg
    Avalon900PelletStove.jpg
    14.4 KB · Views: 947
cleaned it out yet again as well as I could, thought I found a problem when the convection blower wouldn't come on but after a few minutes it did. must have to warm up to a certain temp before it kicks on. working great now, so we'll see how long it lasts. I'd feel a lot more confident if I had found something wrong and fixed it. I guess for whatever reason the overfeeding could have been triggered by the poor airflow and lousy flame, because now I've got good flame quality it's feeding properly. I'm suspecting maybe the convection blower wasn't working all the time. Thanks for all the input, Ireally appreciate it. I'll keep you posted as to how it runs.
As a side note, I was going to buy some more of the Maines Choice tiny broken pellets from Lowes, just to avoid having to drive too far with the fuel prices so high, but Lowes was all out so I went to Home Depot and got a ton of Fireside Ultra. I've used them before, don't remember anything in particular about them, but then my Harman wasn't at all sensitive. Read a few positive reviews. Looks pretty decent, its dark and medium sized bits.
 
Convection blowers generally come on based upon temperature at a predetermined spot on the stove.
 
I'm having the same problem with my Englander 25-EP. I love this pellet stove, but it seems as if the auger is turning too often and the burn pot is filling up, allowing the pellets to back-up into the chute. Obviously this concerns me. I have called customer service and they had me change the number for the pellet rate, air intake etc on the control board. I have cleaned the darn thing out a lot, including taking the plates off to vacuum inside. I'm at a loss now. Love the heat, but I'm afraid to run it without supervision. I don't want to have to pay a technician if I don't have to.

Come on fire Gods! Give a girl some pellet wisdom!
 
agrasso68 said:
I'm having the same problem with my Englander 25-EP. I love this pellet stove, but it seems as if the auger is turning too often and the burn pot is filling up, allowing the pellets to back-up into the chute. Obviously this concerns me. I have called customer service and they had me change the number for the pellet rate, air intake etc on the control board. I have cleaned the darn thing out a lot, including taking the plates off to vacuum inside. I'm at a loss now. Love the heat, but I'm afraid to run it without supervision. I don't want to have to pay a technician if I don't have to.

Come on fire Gods! Give a girl some pellet wisdom!

No fire gods here.

Something for you to check.

1: All gaskets on the stove in particular the ash pan door.

Some information we need.

1: Please describe your venting starting at the stove and going towards the termination cap, we need pipe size, types of elbows, lengths and orientation of all straight pipe runs.

2: Is the OAK installed?

3: Both the lower three settings and the heat range the stove was operating in.

4: The brand of pellets you are burning.
 
Even with the Auger at full tilt, I don't think you could most pellet stoves to overfill and snuff themselves out.

Look for other causes.
 
agrasso68 said:
I'm having the same problem with my Englander 25-EP. I love this pellet stove, but it seems as if the auger is turning too often and the burn pot is filling up, allowing the pellets to back-up into the chute. Obviously this concerns me. I have called customer service and they had me change the number for the pellet rate, air intake etc on the control board. I have cleaned the darn thing out a lot, including taking the plates off to vacuum inside. I'm at a loss now. Love the heat, but I'm afraid to run it without supervision. I don't want to have to pay a technician if I don't have to.

Come on fire Gods! Give a girl some pellet wisdom!

Welcome to the forum agrasso68.

Including the questions that Smokey asked above, how many bags of pellets have been burned in the stove, and what brand?

Has the combustion blower been removed and cleaned, including the plenum that it sits in?

Has the ENTIRE exhaust pipe been cleaned?

Have the ash trap doors in the firebox been removed and all the ash behind them cleaned out?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.