Back in the saddle again

[Snowy Rivers]

I got the "building bug" again and off on another pellet stove control panel crusade.

The controller I built a while back for the Prodigy works fabulously, and so the next step was to build a unit for the ADV 2 T

The big Whit is a tad more complicated in that it uses a few different types of controls and has some slightly different needs.

The current controller (Factory unit) has never been quite right, in that the room air fan runs at near full speed with the control knob doing little if anything to adjust the speed.

The exhaust/combustion blower speed also is not working as the spec's say (Voltage on low feed is a lot higher than it should be) but it has done the job OK since 2010 when we got it.

Soooo

I started gathering components to build a completely new controller from scratch.
New control box (Bigger than the one used for the Prodigy 2)
More solid state relays to allow better safeties and far more control.
Adding a pressure switch that will shut the feed off if the room air fan stops
Adding a vacuum switch to shut the stove off if the draft/comb fan stops running
Adding various LED panel lamps to indicate various functions and allow quick diagnotics.
Changing the HIGH limit snap switches out in favor of manual reset type to make a restart impossible without investigating why it shut down.

All sorts of goodies to update this venerable old girl.

Here are some pix of things so far.
Many small items still coming in the mail, so work is slow to be sure things all fit where they need to and work like they should.

Getting things all done a bit better than the one on the P2
Easier access to the inside of the panel with the two black thumb screws at the top.
A stove mounting bracket.

As soon as all the holes are drilled for Switches, knobs, controls, led indicators, and the internal components the beast is going to get a complete paint job to match the stove. (Metalic gray Stove bright)

I sourced relays and things differently on this unit and this will help the time frame some on the build.

The one piccy with the one meter in the panel and marked up green tape has all the different control locations marked and ready for drilling.
One more meter still coming as are several buttons and such.

The meters are for the two fans (Combustion and Convection) and each will have a control pot mounted close by (between the meters) do vary the voltage/speed>

To assure that the fans do not accidentally get set below the factory low setting a fixed resistor will be connected in parallel with the pot to keep the lowest speed as a given.

The draft/comb fan requires a 70 volt low setting minimum and can be adjusted up from there
Room air fan will be adjustable from about half speed up to full speed.

Most fan speed controllers have an off setting which I wanted to avoid.
Going to use Infitec phase speed control 2x2 solid state controllers in the system.

I have had a few ask me WHY ????
The factory controls are very spendy to replace, and are very delicate.
The micro electronics will not handle any abuse (voltage spike due to power outages etc)
The new controls are all rated at far more amperage than will ever be needed (20 amps)
Very robust and IF there should be a timer/relay failure, it can be replaced in only a few minutes
All the internals are hard wired and with 14 gauge wire, which is way more than needed.

Will post more as it happens

 

[gfreek]

Very interesting . Keep us posted

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Will do.

The unit I built for the P2 worked so well that this was a given course of action.

All the major controls (timers and relays) are the same, so having a box of spares is easy.


No more worries about that failure at 2 am when its cold and going sideways.

 

[heat seeker]

Most interesting! I'm following this thread!

 

[Snowy Rivers]

If you dig through the Archives back a while you can dig up my write up on the new control for the P2 controller

 

[bill3rail]

I got the "building bug" again and off on another pellet stove control panel crusade.

The controller I built a while back for the Prodigy works fabulously, and so the next step was to build a unit for the ADV 2 T


Will post more as it happens

Love to see things like this, Great Job!
Let's see followups on if it works to your expectations.

Bill

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Bill

Thanks for the good vibes

This unit should be able to work as good as expected.
The unit I built for the Prodigy 2 works flawless and it uses basically the same parts.

The ADV 2 T unit has a few slight differences but the basics are the same.

Again, thanks for the good words.

Always happy to share these things.

Snowy

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Mail came

MORE GOODIES
The second panel meter and some phase/speed controls came today.

More pix too

Been thinking about some stuff and the idea of a momentary switch to run the feed motor full on to be able to prime the auger in the case of a "run dry" came to mind.

The most speed this control will give is feeding every 5 seconds.
That's gonna take a looooooong time to prime an empty auger.

Easy addition.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Sitting here this morning looking at new LED panel lamps for the controller.
These are push in style with little springy tabs that latch the lamp into the panel.
Getting them in is easy, getting them out can be an entirely different story as the tabs are small and tough to grasp all four at once.

The bottom line is that tempers are going to flare and things are likely not going to end well.

Sooooo

Off to the machine shop in the basement to build A TOOL that will remove the lamps in a usable condition.

Soon I found a piece of UHMW round stock (Ultra high molecular weight) "polyethylene"

Tossed the beast in the lathe and punched a hole in it that allows it to just slip over the lamps body.
The tool can be slipped over the lamp from the backside and will compress the little tabs, allowing the lamp to slip out of the panel easily.

This will be nice for the various stages of construction and being able to install the lights for mock-up and checking and then removing to paint the panel before final assembly begins.

Tools are great.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

A normally open pushbutton switch across the "contacts" of the auger solid-state relay/timer would be your auger priming switch, or be slick and add a one-shot timer/solid state switch across the auger feed rate timer, and set the one-shot to how many seconds of run time you need to prime an empty auger. Then its a push-the prime-button and walk away feature...

Also, add a Magnahelic (or a solidstate manometer) into your control cabinet, so you can continuously monitor the flue restriction......when it drops say 15% of the value when the stove is clean, you know its time to clean it again.


$58 digital manometer at Amazon.com ( that's what I have)
http://www.amazon.com/Meters-PDMM01...UTF8&qid=1453832101&sr=8-4&keywords=manometer

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I'm gonna need a roll around cabinet for this thing if we add much more goodies.
I am considering a pyrometer in the outlet of the exhaust fan.
With a readout on the panel this would be a great tool to adjust things for optimum burn.

I have enough room left in the panel for a small meter.
Just a thought.

Gonna look like a jet aircraft cockpit soon.

Actually, either jumper the cycle timer or bypassing it all together with the momentary switch will gitterdone.

Having a prime mode is just a great idea.

I have never run the stove out, but it could happen.

The factory control has a 5 position control that will cycle on and off very fast
off one second and on 2
My controller does not have that much speed, as the shells will never need to be fed that fast.
Gawd
That much fuel would melt the house

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Got some of the holes drilled now (Where I have proof of the size needed)

Main power switch, Burner (auger) switch, heat range selector, all the indicator lamps
Pilot holes for the fan speed pots, and the fuse holders in and will enlarge them when the components arrive.

Starting to take shape now.

A few more days and the rest of the goodies arrive I can get all the panel holes completed.

Then the fun commences with laying out the internals (Relays, buss bars and wiring)

 

[womaus]

Where's the oil pressure gauge? Where's the tachometer? Where's the leather covered dashboard?

And most importantly, where are the turn signals?

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Did some messing around with the graphics manager and doodled some graphics on the new panel that might represent things when they are done.

AHHHH COMING SOON, ALL THE GOODIES INCLUDING LEATHER STEERING WHEEL

 

[Snowy Rivers]

MORE PARTS SHOWED UP TODAY

I had enough goodies to do a test run on one of the phase speed controls tied in with the new panel meters.

Wired it up on the bench with a handy draft fan from the little Whit (spare)

I am not real happy with the pots I got.
They work, but 2 of the 5 in the lot were flakey in places.

I may dig for some higher grade pots.

But I was able to get some good numbers on my VOM
The cool panel meter reads good with my digital VOM
Also got some good numbers on the pot after setting the voltage at a steady 70 Volts

25 K ohms is whats needed for a low end resistor across the control unit terminals.

I can see why the factory spec'd 70 colts minimum on the fan.
You go below 70 and the poor Widdle motor falls on it's Azz

75 really feels better.

I need to get my VOM and check the big whit running and see what it's doing while the factory board is still there.

70 volts will start the motor OK from a dead start, but we definitely gotta have that low limit resistor in as a safety.

In the pix you can see the meter hovering around 70 volts and the blur of the cooling fan shows its moving.

Pretty hokie wiring, but quite good enough to test the set up.

I like it

 

[Snowy Rivers]

All quiet on the Western Front.
The new control panel is looking good and getting closer.
The bulk of the drilled holes through the face of it are nearly complete.
Have a couple buttons that are not here yet and need to wait for these to arrive to be sure of the hole size.

Other components are on order and will be dribbling in as time goes by.

Soon though I should be able to get the relays located inside the panel and start the wiring process.

Doing this with "hard wire" as opposed to a printed circuit board certainly does add bulk to the project, but there is definitely a ruggedness here that just can't be duplicated in a tiny circuit board.

Some minor changes are going to be seen once the package is complete.
The labeling in the preceding pix was done in the computer to help illustrate the project, and once the final plan is in place the panel will be cleaned and painted to match the stove just prior to installing all the components..

The graphics will be added after completion to allow ease of use.

More coming.

Snowy

 

[Dr.Faustus]

i like the motor labeled "very good condition"

lol. I do that too with pc parts.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Me too.

That is a draft booster fan for the prodigy 2
It was handy and had spade terminals on it to facilitate quick use in my phase control test.

Those little motors are not cheap and I found it on ebay one night with a make offer on it.

I tossed the guy a very modest offer and he took it.

It came with the paddle, the fan mounting plate, the cooling blade and was like new other than some minor surface rust on the frame.

Runs smooth and nice.

I wrote the good condition on it.
It may not get used right away as I just replaced the one in our P2.

I wanted to have some info on it for future reference,

I have another that's NOS in the box as well.

These being an extremely long shaft as well as a reverse rotation from most draft fans makes them an odd duck and much harder to adapt a different motor.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Got some goodies today and did a test on the phase control again with a 24k ohm resistor soldered in parallel to the pot to give an absolute stable and finite low speed to the draft fan.

The blue resistor can be seen in the piccy and the Volt meter is hugging 75 volts.

I want 70 volts and will need to change the resistor a touch to get the hard 70 number

In parallel the resistor meters out at 18700 ohms and not the 24000.

Will likely need about 28k ohms to get the results I want.]

But this test proved that the plan works well.

I ran the test motor about an hour at 75 volts and this was with the pot all the way CCW (LOW)
I varied the voltage up and down and tested starts and stops at the low setting, and all were sweet.

This will be a real treat to be able to tweak the fan speed easily when burning, and to get an optimum burn.

Will use a similar setup on the room air fan, with the lowest speed right about where we run it normally to keep from an overheat situation.

WE never have run the room fan on a low setting as we need to move a buttload of air in this big shack, plus the fan adjustment is not working well, so we leave it alone to keep the status quo.

If its working, DONT MESS WITH IT OK.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Went out today after breakfast and stopped by Fry's Electronics.
Got a few terminals and some other tidbits.

Went to work on the self contained resistor terminal blocks.

These allow the fixed resistor to be easily swapped out of the system if need be.

These terminal blocks fasten into the panel and the wires from the fan control pot adjustments connect in parallel to these.

I used spade splitters to allow everything to just plug in.

While I am soldering the connectors onto the resistors "Chupi Cat" decides that it is time to help me and starts getting little paws into the mix.

Soon I am watching connectors become play items.

Little helper though is always happy to be with me when I am working on stuff.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

More goodies came in the mail Monday, so I was able to verify hole sizes and finish drilling the panel.

Got the drilling done and decided to do a complete "Dress Rehearsal"

The scratches in the center of the panel are very ugly in the piccy, but are extremely light in reality and once the panel is either bead blasted or painted will be a moot point.

The light glare on that area made me go WHAT ?????

Amazing how bright aluminum shows up scratches to that extent in a piccy.

Anyway.

I'm pleased with the overall look of things at present.

Now the fun really begins with getting the wiring and all the relays installed in the thing.

I did an in computer addition of what the finished graphics may look like.

I'm getting exited now.