Just wondering what all of you use for backup power if the electric goes out. I was thinking about a small generator just to run my stove. I could sit it outside right by the window the stove is near to. What about the battery backups?
Backup Power Source?
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Harvick29 said:
Use "Search Forums" and get instant access to lots of opinions on this very subject
I have a gas generator for backup electric. Seems to me this is the cheapest way to go. Mine is large enough that I can run my computer (or TV), lights, pellet stove and refrigerator all at the same time. I had a blackout some months back, I was the only one for miles with any lights on (country). I turn off the main breaker and back feed to house outlets from the detached garage.
So what I am getting from the search is that a generator is ok as long as it is pure sine?
Lance, my parents have a setup like yours and it is great. They can run their whole house on theirs as well but Im looking for a smaller generator to get me through this winter that just runs my pellet stove safely without damaging it. Ill kepp searching.
Lance, my parents have a setup like yours and it is great. They can run their whole house on theirs as well but Im looking for a smaller generator to get me through this winter that just runs my pellet stove safely without damaging it. Ill kepp searching.
Yes. Actually a 'pure sine wave'.
Buy a larger unit than needed, seems manufactures claim a higher wattage than the generator can actually supply. Plus you will run more than a pellet stove on it, like your refrigerator. I can't run my whole house on my generator, just a selected few items that I can't live without. Picture what you would want to run if there was a blackout for a week.
Don't do any of this if your not electric savvy.
All I do to hook it into my house is I used an extension cord with two male plugs. One to the generator and to any outlet and it back feeds to the house. (turn the main breaker at the meter off first) The outlet I use actually runs though three breakers before hitting the house outlets.
Buy a larger unit than needed, seems manufactures claim a higher wattage than the generator can actually supply. Plus you will run more than a pellet stove on it, like your refrigerator. I can't run my whole house on my generator, just a selected few items that I can't live without. Picture what you would want to run if there was a blackout for a week.
Don't do any of this if your not electric savvy.
All I do to hook it into my house is I used an extension cord with two male plugs. One to the generator and to any outlet and it back feeds to the house. (turn the main breaker at the meter off first) The outlet I use actually runs though three breakers before hitting the house outlets.
Lance1 said:
Just be REAL careful. How I do it, too, but make sure you
1: SHUT OFF THE MAIN BREAKER
2: PLUG INTO YOUR OUTLET BEFORE YOU PLUG INTO THE GENERATOR, IF YOU PLUG INTO THE GEN. FIRST, THOSE PRONGS ON THE OTHER END ARE HOT, YOU WILL FRY YOUR A**, GUARANTEED
I did mention the main breaker and one should be electric savvy. Personally I hook everything up first before I start the generator, this is one savvy part.
Also make sure everything is off in the house before starting the generator, after it warms up, start loading it up slowly.
Also make sure everything is off in the house before starting the generator, after it warms up, start loading it up slowly.
I've got a Harman battery back up charger / inverter hooked up to a deep cycle battery and a 5KW generator hooked up to a transfer switch. Works great, for probably 8-10 hours (uneducated guess). I'm thinking of getting a 2nd deep cycle to extend the battery life so the stove will keep running for the time I'm not using the generator, in case we get another big 5 day power-loss ice storm...
Oh ok, I thought I would need a plug ran directly into my fuse box from the outside. I was just looking for a generator I could plug the stove and the fridge directly into. Thanks for the info guys...
I have a 12V deep cycle battery that is kept charged by a solar array to power the stove.
Regarding using a generator, you really should have a transfer switch or an interlock on your panel for safety purposes. Plugging the stove directly into the generator would eliminate this issue.
Regarding using a generator, you really should have a transfer switch or an interlock on your panel for safety purposes. Plugging the stove directly into the generator would eliminate this issue.
yeah I was just looking for a small generator to run an extension chord out the window and plug my stove into. My parents live less tha a mile away so If it goes too long I can put my food in their freezer or hell put it outside if its cold enough in a cooler.
A lot of people just go out and buy a generator to be prepared. However, I think that there are some other issues to consider.
1 - how much power do you need? Will you be powering a well pump, air conditioning, furnace, big screen TV, refrigerator, or just a couple of CF lights? Do you need a 240V output as well as a 120V? Add up all the loads you want to power at the same time, and take into account the extra start up current needed by motors and compressors.
2 - How are you going to connect to the loads? If you need to run hard wired appliances (furnace, well pump), you need to buy an approved transfer switch. Get it installed by a licensed pro, and inspected. Do not back feed thru a dryer outlet. Safety is very important. If you are only going to run smaller loads (fridge, pellet stove, etc), extension cords may be adequate.
3 - What type of fuel will the generator use? Gas is fairly typical, but does not store well. How long do you expect to use the generator for? Do you have room to store enough gas? A smaller generator will use less fuel, but will provide less power.
4 - Where will you run the generator? It has to be outside (do not run in an attached garage!). Do you have a bit of shelter for it (keep it out of the rain/snow)? Some generators do not like to be run in cold weather (mine states under 40F, carb icing can occur unless you provide a cold weather shelter). Also, they can be very noisy.
For some, and inverter and a battery is the best emergency power setup. For others, a small gas generator is ideal. Whole home systems are also available. however, whichever route you go, be sure to plan for using the system!
We have a Briggs and Stratton PRO4000, nice machine, well regulated outputs, but the thing weighs a ton! It has the Vanguard engine, which is very quiet and seems very reliable. Don’t forget to stock up on extra filters for your machine. I have also heard good things about the Honda and Yamaha generators.
If all you are looking for is a small generator to power your pellet stove, maybe something from the Honda or Yamaha inverter series. Not a lot of output power, but very clean and they sip fuel.
Cheers
Kenny
1 - how much power do you need? Will you be powering a well pump, air conditioning, furnace, big screen TV, refrigerator, or just a couple of CF lights? Do you need a 240V output as well as a 120V? Add up all the loads you want to power at the same time, and take into account the extra start up current needed by motors and compressors.
2 - How are you going to connect to the loads? If you need to run hard wired appliances (furnace, well pump), you need to buy an approved transfer switch. Get it installed by a licensed pro, and inspected. Do not back feed thru a dryer outlet. Safety is very important. If you are only going to run smaller loads (fridge, pellet stove, etc), extension cords may be adequate.
3 - What type of fuel will the generator use? Gas is fairly typical, but does not store well. How long do you expect to use the generator for? Do you have room to store enough gas? A smaller generator will use less fuel, but will provide less power.
4 - Where will you run the generator? It has to be outside (do not run in an attached garage!). Do you have a bit of shelter for it (keep it out of the rain/snow)? Some generators do not like to be run in cold weather (mine states under 40F, carb icing can occur unless you provide a cold weather shelter). Also, they can be very noisy.
For some, and inverter and a battery is the best emergency power setup. For others, a small gas generator is ideal. Whole home systems are also available. however, whichever route you go, be sure to plan for using the system!
We have a Briggs and Stratton PRO4000, nice machine, well regulated outputs, but the thing weighs a ton! It has the Vanguard engine, which is very quiet and seems very reliable. Don’t forget to stock up on extra filters for your machine. I have also heard good things about the Honda and Yamaha generators.
If all you are looking for is a small generator to power your pellet stove, maybe something from the Honda or Yamaha inverter series. Not a lot of output power, but very clean and they sip fuel.
Cheers
Kenny
Wow thanks Kenny. Great write up.
I like the power inverter idea for now. I may do something more expensive later but Ill look into wiring for a bigger generator when I have my fuse box replaced in the future.
I like the power inverter idea for now. I may do something more expensive later but Ill look into wiring for a bigger generator when I have my fuse box replaced in the future.
We have a small 400 watt Black and Decker inverter.
If this is not a "Pure Sine Wave" unit, will it damage either motor??
It might be a "Modified Sine Wave" output.
I'm still looking for specs.
Thanks
EDIT
This unit is a "Modified Sine Wave" output.
(broken link removed to http://www.backwoodssolar.com/catalog/images/waveform.gif)
http://www.dewaltservicenet.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=69156&tid=15708
If this is not a "Pure Sine Wave" unit, will it damage either motor??
It might be a "Modified Sine Wave" output.
I'm still looking for specs.
Thanks
EDIT
This unit is a "Modified Sine Wave" output.
(broken link removed to http://www.backwoodssolar.com/catalog/images/waveform.gif)
http://www.dewaltservicenet.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=69156&tid=15708
What is really meant by needing a pure sine wave is a 'clean' wave verses a 'dirty' wave. A clean wave is consistent, were a dirty is erratic. The sine wave represents the cycles or frequency of the A/C voltage, as in 60Hz.
It's more likely to have a dirty wave from a China made generator.
It's more likely to have a dirty wave from a China made generator.
Lance1 said:
As per Lessoil's diagram, a "pure" sine wave has no sharp edges. A "modified" sine wave (or square wave) is just that....DC current (from a battery) that is made to "look like" a pure sine wave by running it through an "inverter", but it's not.
It will work on most things electronic, but when it comes to the motors that drive the fans in our stoves, a modified sine wave can cause some motors to get hot. There are ways (devices) that will "clean-up" a modified wave, but only a generator that has a rotating stator inside a coil of wires can make a true "pure sine wave".....that's what the power company does, but on a large scale.
Hence, since gas powered generators all produce their power this way, they are safe to use, although the cheaper ones do create a "dirty" wave (not exactly super smooth lines on the wave).....but it doesn't seem to bother the motors on the stove.
That is not correct. There are fundamental differences between a sine wave produced by a generator and creating alternating current and inverters which turn DC current into AC and produce a modified sine wave. A modified sine wave has square edges and instantaneous transition from state to state. A sine wave progresses over time producing the familiar curve - the voltage ramps up, ramps down, goes thru 0 and then repeats. A modified sine wave goes from 0 to peak voltage virtually instantaneously, drops thru zero to peak negative voltage also nearly instantaneously.Lance1 said:
As a result, some things, like electronics don't care - they want either voltage or no voltage. Other things like motors can care - they work by sensing the transition from positive to negative (going thru 0) over time. It's this time sensitivity that can cause havoc with motors - some might not run at all, some might run erratically, some might overheat, etc. You can't tell unless you test that motor on the modified sine source (actually there are some fairly sophisticated testing & benchmarking processes that can tell, but most motor makers won't be bothered to certify against a modified sine wave sources).
A "dirty" vs. "clean" waveform can apply to either AC or DC current and either a pure sine wave or a modified sine wave. It just refers to the consistency of the waveform - absence of spikes, noise, frequency shift, etc. China bashing aside, I've seen as many domestically produced dirty power sources as foreign made ones - it's the cost & quality of components that makes the differences regardless of where the hardware is actually made.
Great stuff here on clean and dirty power. I would strongly suggest that you plug your stove into a surge protector strip, just as you should do for your computers. Think of how much it will cost you to replace the electronics in your stove if you get a power surge....
THE best way to kill a hard drive is to have a generator powering your computer. Ouch!
We had a generator back flow switch installed so we just throw the house breakers on the that switch when the power goes out and fire up the generator. We have just the most important house circuits fired by the generator. This switch prevents power from being fed back into the grid which could kill a lineman working on the power outage.
Just to be on the extra safe side, I have a APC UPS unit (that I can plug the stove into and then the UPS unit into the electrical socket on the wall) that is designed to "groom the generator power" and prevent those power spikes that have been mentioned in the previous posts. (I do not work for APC or have any financial interest in their company.) I can sit by the stove with my laptop and know that both sets of electronics are safe and sound. The gas generator runs outside and I don't have extension cords snaking inside a cracked opened window or door. Priceless.
Stay safe AND stay warm!
THE best way to kill a hard drive is to have a generator powering your computer. Ouch!
We had a generator back flow switch installed so we just throw the house breakers on the that switch when the power goes out and fire up the generator. We have just the most important house circuits fired by the generator. This switch prevents power from being fed back into the grid which could kill a lineman working on the power outage.
Just to be on the extra safe side, I have a APC UPS unit (that I can plug the stove into and then the UPS unit into the electrical socket on the wall) that is designed to "groom the generator power" and prevent those power spikes that have been mentioned in the previous posts. (I do not work for APC or have any financial interest in their company.) I can sit by the stove with my laptop and know that both sets of electronics are safe and sound. The gas generator runs outside and I don't have extension cords snaking inside a cracked opened window or door. Priceless.
Stay safe AND stay warm!
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