backup/supplemental heater for wood stove

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Gas will cost less if you use it for heating as well as cooking and hot water. Most suppliers adjust price according to usage. You shouldn't need a mixing valve, just a separate thermostat for each zone, unless you set up for constant flow, but now I'm getting in over my head so have your "someone" advise you as to the best setup. Slab temps should be in the 80's low 90's in a well insulated house, well within range of a water heater but for baseboard or fan coils or rads you'll need higher temps. Seems to me moving things into the house would be a good move for several reasons. Better call the tubing co. to see if those lines are compatible with oil, if not maybe you could shoot a string and pull new ones through if the ID is large enough. A DWH is probably the cheapest route but will only heat the slab, and you'll need a heat exchanger to use it for potable hot water as well. Be careful where you put things, propane is heavier than air and if you have a leak it could fill a root cellar and explode with a spark or suffocate you on the way down to check it. Fine Homebuilding had an excellent article on using a second water heater (electric) as a buffer tank when heating this way. Can't remember their reasoning but sounded good to me. You already have one so search their archives and find the article. Sounds like you're closing in. Hope you can hit a Homer on this! By the way, quit with the jokes already. I'm Sitka you stealing my material.

Ehouse
 
Ehouse said:
Gas will cost less if you use it for heating as well as cooking and hot water. Most suppliers adjust price according to usage. You shouldn't need a mixing valve, just a separate thermostat for each zone, unless you set up for constant flow, but now I'm getting in over my head so have your "someone" advise you as to the best setup.
Mine too. I know that a mixing valve would have been a neccesity with a new boiler.
Slab temps should be in the 80's low 90's in a well insulated house, well within range of a water heater but for baseboard or fan coils or rads you'll need higher temps.
If I could just get a warm slab with this I'd be pretty happy at this point.

Seems to me moving things into the house would be a good move for several reasons. Better call the tubing co. to see if those lines are compatible with oil, if not maybe you could shoot a string and pull new ones through if the ID is large enough.

They're copper lines. But it's 1.5", so I would have a lot of oil sitting in that line. That's a good suggestion about running a line through. A DWH is probably the cheapest route but will only heat the slab, and you'll need a heat exchanger to use it for potable hot water as well. Don't really need to use it for potable hot water.

Be careful where you put things, propane is heavier than air and if you have a leak it could fill a root cellar and explode with a spark or suffocate you on the way down to check it. You make is sound so inviting. Fine Homebuilding had an excellent article on using a second water heater (electric) as a buffer tank when heating this way. Can't remember their reasoning but sounded good to me. You already have one two, actually. I have a huge tempering tank that was full of glycol before the big blow.

so search their archives and find the article. I'll check it out. Sounds like you're closing in. Hope you can hit a Homer on this! Some folks would say it's a bit of a Gambell, but I try to Elim-inate that kind of negative thinking. I hope to have some Goodnews; Bayfore I invest one more Nickolai want to make sure I know what I'm doing. Kenai count on you to Tok me through the times when I want to Chicken out? By the way, quit with the jokes already. I'm Sitka you stealing my material. Sorry. Don't mean to beat a Deadhorse. Valdez is it for me. Thank you and good night.

Ehouse

ETA Why I think I need another heat source:

conversation this evening w/DS:
Me: My priority now is getting another heat source in so that you are not dependent upon the woodstove to heat the house when I have to travel next month.
Him: Well, what are we using now?
Me: the wood stove.
Him: But it's freezing out!
Me: but not in here.
Him: Have we been using the wood stove to heat the house all this time?
Me: Since January.
Him: Oh.
Me:
 
Snow,

Check out Takagi, and especially the T=KJr. These units were highly recommended to me by an expert in efficient home design. It has a temp range that will do your whole system and I think they can be linked in series, so you could start with one and add on if needed. You could also use your existing DWH as an indirect and have electric backup. House needs .com has a schematic for heating application. I'm seeing the price for a new unit From $500.00 to $900.00. Ask around. I'll bet people are using them up thataway.

Start with the slab then try to Wrangell a good used DV Heater. With a little determination Anchorage, You'll have a good economical solution. Don't ignore the financing option. You might find some Fairbanks to do business with, although I'd rather be thrown into a Denali(Y)nx than deal with most of 'em.

You Cordova't least not used up all the easy names. If you can squeeze in Gustavus and Matenuska, I'll bow to you as master.

Your son sounds perfect for my niece. I'll have to Talkeetna about him!

Ehouse
 
Anchorage? Anchorage? Game over. You're Dome Andersite has none such as you.

I'm checking out the Takagi lineup. I haven't heard of them, but I've not been looking up until now. I'm taking the day off of work to try to get some answers, and I'm pretty sure I'll be Akutan' and Igloo(n') and a-solderin' and a-tinkerin' and Tyeeing things together right up until I have to leave on my trip. I try to look on the Sunnyside, be Gustavus thing I can do right now is succumb to despair and listen to pessimists Angoons like that. What I have here might be a Shaktooliks of that, but if the voice of discouragement whispers in my ear I have to Teller that sHoonah or later, if I continue to seek wise Council, the high waters of Deese Creek I'm wading through will drop again, and daMatanuska Hope-lessness will not settle around this neck! I just have to keep my Bering Strait and Bluff a bit and Hope that Darby a Resolution, Baycause there just must be one.

Can't.stop.myself.
 
I yield, and offer up my Seward.

Ehouse
 
Yield it not. The Quinagok Anderson Charlieskin be here soon Denali-ve us Wasilla be knighted: Surrey-house. At least, I think she'd do it. Alaska.

ETA: The Altrol man came over yesterday, and spent at least an hour and a half here. He listened (!) to what I had to say, and we explored the remains of the existing heating system pretty thoroughly, and looked over the water system. Determined that instead of the water lines for the kitchen following the outside wall, they were in fact coming through the ceiling joists and were in the inner of the double wall construction. He intuited that the rest of the system was done well (set up to be drained in the event of a winter vacation, all other plumbing on interior walls) and it was unlikely that the builder took a different tack and put the plumbing at risk. So even though my kitchen floor was getting cold, my pipes were not as much at risk as I feared.

We looked over all the options for an inside placement for the water heater (all of which were on the north wall, and thus below grade). He finally asked, "What is it that you think you'd gain by going with an inside placement?" and I told him my thinking on that. (Greater efficiency, no need to feed the utilidor with expensive glycol). Walked out to the garage, looked at the setup out there, and he recommended keeping it out there. Also said that the folks he saw going over to a water heater system were usually replacing them in five or six years. Thought that perhaps a few thousand could be shaved off the boiler estimate, but it was in the ballpark, and recommended going with a boiler over a water heater.

Given that, he felt that the best option, considering the price of oil/propane and that I've already got an oil tank, and that there are servicing options for it in town, a Toyo direct vent oil heater would give me all the supplemental heat I need. I discussed the pros and cons of a used unit, and he leaned towards new unless I could get one that had been serviced annually, and had the records to show it. He said that these had about a six or seven year life expectancy (especially since people tended not to get them serviced regularly) and buying used just shortens that. The wood stove takes me most of the way there, and the Toyo can fill in the edges. He looked over the proposed placement spot, and thought that would work fine. He said, "You won't be hurting the house by waiting to replace the boiler." Floor gets too cold in the kitchen, I can put down a rug.

Six or seven years will see my daughter out of college and working, and my son through h.s. and into or even out of college--a good time then to figure out my next step, and to have the financial wherewithal to do that.

And peace is restored to the kingdom. I have a plan. Unless a financial windfall drops out of the sky in the near future (high pressure system is holding, clear skies as far as I can see, forecast for windfalls: highly unlikely), a Toyo will do the job for me for about $2500, around 10K less than I would otherwise have to come up with. And should the opportunity for a boiler come along, and should I feel the need to install one, I can still have the Toyo available as a `backup backup'. Feeling.much.better.

A profound thank you to my h.c compadres for walking through this with me, sharing your ideas, offering support. It was hard to panic and laugh at puns at the same time, Ehouse, so thank you especially for that. Now that my son understands that the heat for the house is coming out of the big box in the middle of the room, he has stated that he would be willing to keep the house warm with fires while I'm gone. If I get the Toyo in before my trip, I will point out to him that this is also a heat source.
 
Sounds like a plan. My only trepidation would be that the 6 to 7 year life span for $2,500 doesn't sound any better than 5 to 6 for a DWH or a Takagi for considerably less. It will be nice to have it right in the living space though. I agree that for that type of unit, new is the way to go. You can address the slab later.

I'm glad that Chugach your system figured out. Tomorrow, after I have my breakfast of Emmonaks, I'll Barrow my neighbor's flashlight and go down to the basement to loo Katmai setup. If I'm to be knighted, I'll need a new moniker. How does Prince William Sound? Keni take a Minto say You sound like Salcha fantas Tikchik, I've Kotzebue-hoos to think this is finally at an end, or maybe I'm just cat Chena cold. Yakutat least keep us informed as to how it turns out.

Ehouse
 
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