except for baths, oak harwood is everywhere in the house, even the kitchen. we only use a few area rugs.
Basement Sprayfoam Quote
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except for baths, oak harwood is everywhere in the house, even the kitchen. we only use a few area rugs.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
Our house came with insulation in the basement ceiling, and people have asked if we had floor heat, so it must be pretty warm. Just saying maybe it could do some good.
you might be right...but that's alot trouble and cost to find out. i was thinking of putting up a few sq ft of batts as a test. But the results might not be predictive.
also, i'm planning of putting up floating ceiling panels here and there with the ceiling above them visable. visible insulation doesn't fit the design.
Right now the basement is being heated through the 1st floor. If there is no heat down there and its 32 F outside and 55 F in the basement with no heat source down there then that is what is happening. If the 1st floor is cold then you really need the wall/sill insulation plus a little heat in the basement to heat it up to 70 F (or close to the 1st floor setpoint) to keep it from "stealing" heat from the 1st floor.
Ceiling insulation is dumb unless the basement is a completely cold, unoccupied space with no water piping etc. If that was the case you'd insulate and air seal the ceiling and not the walls. But that clearly isn't the case for your basement. I know its a common approach, but its incorrect. It sounds like your contractor was focused on noise so I think they understand this as well. Either way, I'd definitely skip it.
I think you are absolutely on the right track. And $900 sounds like a good price for the foam, though I'm not clear on how many sq-ft you are talking about doing.
Ceiling insulation is dumb unless the basement is a completely cold, unoccupied space with no water piping etc. If that was the case you'd insulate and air seal the ceiling and not the walls. But that clearly isn't the case for your basement. I know its a common approach, but its incorrect. It sounds like your contractor was focused on noise so I think they understand this as well. Either way, I'd definitely skip it.
I think you are absolutely on the right track. And $900 sounds like a good price for the foam, though I'm not clear on how many sq-ft you are talking about doing.
1. i always assumed the 60d was coming from the earth around the basement walls. In summer, its still 65, although the temp upstairs is 95. We don't have AC.
2. the basement. where the sill work is needed is roughly 30' x 25', maybe bigger. i'll take a measurement tonight.
AK13 - Keep going your getting to them.
Let me try it this way. I would assume in your location SE Mass there is frost in the ground. Not sure how far down the frost goes down. That doesn't matter. Go check and see how far out from the foundation where the ground is not frozen. 3", 4" or whatever. That is heat escaping from your foundations that wall insulation will not allow to happen as much. Since you can't insulate the foundation from the outside you cannot eliminate that heat escape completely but, you can help with wall insulation.
mass_burner: do you have a garage that is referred to as a tuck under the house garage, which is adjacent to the basement?
The insulation guy well intentioned but between floors insulation is ONLY for sound control. If that what you want then yes.
Let me try it this way. I would assume in your location SE Mass there is frost in the ground. Not sure how far down the frost goes down. That doesn't matter. Go check and see how far out from the foundation where the ground is not frozen. 3", 4" or whatever. That is heat escaping from your foundations that wall insulation will not allow to happen as much. Since you can't insulate the foundation from the outside you cannot eliminate that heat escape completely but, you can help with wall insulation.
mass_burner: do you have a garage that is referred to as a tuck under the house garage, which is adjacent to the basement?
The insulation guy well intentioned but between floors insulation is ONLY for sound control. If that what you want then yes.
I would insulate that garage from the house so fast it would make your head spin. Opening and closing garage doors is a heat loss culprit. I would make sure the ceiling in the garage is insulated really well and then a firestop of 5/8" sheetrock that is taped. (firetaped) Assuming there is living space above the garage. Then the common wall from the garage to the rest of the basement I would also insulate as best I could and again 5/8" rock both sides. If your pulling a building permit the inspector is going to catch that. UBC firecode - mandatory.
Your contractor should know this.
Your contractor should know this.
If this is happening, then there should be a difference in ceiling temp from the back bedroom, where there is no heat on during the day, and the family room where the inserts are. back bedroom is 64d; family room 73d. So if I went to these spots in the basement ceiling they would show a 10d difference?
Garage ceiling is plastered, within a year of moving in, I had cellulose blown in through cut-out holes. The dining room is above the garage. it was a big improvement. The basement is separated from the 2 car garage by two sliding 2" aluminum clad doors, foam inside I'm guessing. Between the 2 doors is the basement to roof chimney and cinder block on each side of the chimney framing the 2" aluminum doors.
So from left-to-right its:
cinder block wall-aluminum door-cinder block wall-chimney-cinder block wall-aluminum door-cinder block wall
Id be concerned about any company that would put kraft faced fiberglass bats in your joists. Lets see it falls down a little air gets in and its worthless. Might stop some sound.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
Plus, with my fg batts, it always rains down fibers anytime you go near. I'm thinking of covering it up with black landscaping cloth stapled to the underside of the joists. It would contain the fiberglass, black out the ceiling, and be easily removable.
Why not use Roxul in the joists it will stay tight doesn't burn and will actually insulate. In my opinion adding fiberglass is a big no no except maybe in your attic.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
It probably wouldn't breath as well then. I think where basements are concerned, breathing is good.
Where2
Feeling the Heat
If they are as leaky as my 1962 awning windows were, I'd start packing my lunch for as long as it takes to replace all those awning windows the day after you get the rim joist insulated. Before I replaced my 1962 awning windows, when my A/C was running, I used to be able to literally feel the A/C bleeding out of them if I held my hand near the middle seam on any of the windows in the middle of summer. In winter, when the wind blew, I could feel drafts inside from the leaks in those awning windows. For the 12 years I owned my house before I replaced the awning windows, I might as well have opened them and been tossing dimes an quarters out of them for all they cost me.
they're not that bad. these windows allow an extra pane on the outside and on the inside. so we actually have triple pane.
You might want to contact MassSave. They will do a complete energy audit for free. We had one done yesterday, the guy was here for over 4 hours testing the house. They give you up to $2000 towards the work they recomend and threw in about $900 worth of air sealing for free. Replaced all our lightbulbs, gave us a few fancy powerstrips, and even gave me a nice programable thermostat which we decided not to instal given our 52* thermastat setting. Our house has basically no insulation so to insulate the attic with 12" cellulse, all exterior walls with 4" and do the air sealing came out to about $6000. It will cost us about $3000 which can be financed @ 0% interest for 7 years.
already did mass save. had the attic sealed and cellulose blown in , doors to attic made and sill plate air sealed. doors also weather stripped. problem is MS does not do spray foaming. except in small amounts. MS guy said they might add it this spring, but I'm not holding my breath.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
I put multiple layers of xps foam board in my sill plate, but it was tedious, mostly because I went for a tight fit because of the multiple layers and the fact that I don't like to work with great stuff. I figured out the cost of the xps at one point and even the material cost was high and more than what I figured, after the fact, that spray foam would be.
For foaming the sill area, you want closed cell foam, not open cell. OC is too water vapor permeable. You want interior wintertime humidity kept away from what will be a cold rim board.
I'd echo the opinions of others on insulating the walls: do it (after the floor polishing work, of course). Your basement is staying in the mid 50s all winter because the deep ground is in the low 50s, and progressively colder as you get toward the surface. Those concrete walls are sucking a lot of heat out of the house, and a good part of that heat is from the floor above, contributing to their feeling cold. Even if you don't add heat to the basement after insulating the rim and walls down there, the temperature will rise to perhaps the mid-60s, and that in turn will improve the temperature of the floor above.
A lot of good information on basement insulation can be found here:
http://www.buildingscience.com/search?SearchableText=basement+insulation
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-insulate-basement-wall
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/basement-insulation-part-1
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/basement-insulation-part-2
How and why to insulate a basement has been discussed all over the place. You ought to do some reading before you decide on what to do.
I'd echo the opinions of others on insulating the walls: do it (after the floor polishing work, of course). Your basement is staying in the mid 50s all winter because the deep ground is in the low 50s, and progressively colder as you get toward the surface. Those concrete walls are sucking a lot of heat out of the house, and a good part of that heat is from the floor above, contributing to their feeling cold. Even if you don't add heat to the basement after insulating the rim and walls down there, the temperature will rise to perhaps the mid-60s, and that in turn will improve the temperature of the floor above.
A lot of good information on basement insulation can be found here:
http://www.buildingscience.com/search?SearchableText=basement+insulation
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-insulate-basement-wall
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/basement-insulation-part-1
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/basement-insulation-part-2
How and why to insulate a basement has been discussed all over the place. You ought to do some reading before you decide on what to do.
Thanks, I will do more research. What sounds counter-intuitive are these statements in this thread.
1. heat is being stolen from the first floor into the basement via the basement ceiling.
2. but insulating the basement ceiling will not do any good.
Why wouldn't basement ceiling insulation stop the transfer of warm air from the first floor to the basement? Isn't this the same concept applicable in the first floor cieling to attic?
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