Battery Backup Dummy

[joescho]

All of this talk about Nor'easters, floods, people without power for weeks and such has prompted me to get the battery backup cable for my Mt. Vernon.

Now I know its as simple as positive to positive, negative to negative, plug into stove.

However, I have some other questions that I hope some could help with....

What's a decent size battery to buy?? What would be the appropriate charger? Do I wait until I need a battery to buy since until then it will be just sitting around loosing its charge, or do I get a trickle charger and keep it plugged in all the time?

What if I wanted to do two batteries? How would I hook those up?

(see, I AM a battery backup dummy)

JS

 

[Harvey Schneider]

I opted for an AGM, sealed, marine (deep discharge) battery because I consider it unsafe to charge non-sealed batteries indoors. A marine or deep discharge battery is preferable to a car battery because it recovers better from deep discharge. I have an 100Ah battery that gives me in excess of 50 hours of run time. I say in excess of because that is the longest I have needed my stove to run on it.
I have a battery charger and a battery tender. The charger gives me quick recovery (at 6A for up to 12 hours) and then I switch to the battery tender to maintain the charge. They can be connected at the same time for convenience.
A simple Voltmeter will help you evaluate the state of charge of a battery. Measurements should be taken after the battery has been off the charger for about an hour. These are approximations: 12.6V is a fully charged battery, 12.2V is the lowest a battery should be stored at, 10.5V is a fully depleted battery
Batteries are usually at only about half charge capacity when you buy them, so I would get my battery and get it charged in advance.
When working with multiple batteries one should only connect batteries in parallel if they are at comparable states of charge. You might be better off running from one battery until it is depleted and then shutting down your stove to change to another. Chances are your stove will shut down for a cleaning before the battery is fully depleted.
On battery you will have to manually light the stove so I suggest you buy some fire starter gel. It is basically sterno in a squeeze bottle.
When running on battery I set my Mt Vernon to manual mode and the smallest heat output setting that will keep me comfortable.
I hope this information helps.

 

[P38X2]

So are you saying you're using a 12v battery, running it through a 12 to 120 power inverter, then running yer stove with it?

Seems a lot easier and quieter than firing up the generator. I have a deep cycle marine battery that I power my telescope with just sitting in the garage.

Is this recommended over a generator? Are there any cons aside from the capacity limitations of the battery?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

So are you saying you're using a 12v battery, running it through a 12 to 120 power inverter, then running yer stove with it?

Seems a lot easier and quieter than firing up the generator. I have a deep cycle marine battery that I power my telescope with just sitting in the garage.

Is this recommended over a generator? Are there any cons aside from the capacity limitations of the battery?

The AE has a 12 volt direct connect for use with a battery. No inverters needed. All of the internal parts are DC except for the AC to DC power supply unit.

 

[P38X2]

Ah, thanks Smokey.

Is powering a 110v stove recommend using the battery/inverter method? Does it come with it's own set of issues?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Provided the inverter produces a pure 60 Hz sine wave there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[P38X2]

OK. Thanks.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

So are you saying you're using a 12v battery, running it through a 12 to 120 power inverter, then running yer stove with it?

The AE has a 12 volt direct connect for use with a battery. No inverters needed. All of the internal parts are DC except for the AC to DC power supply unit.

You need the optional dc adapter cable. It plugs into the stove and has clips that go on the battery terminals.

 

[joescho]

I opted for an AGM, sealed, marine (deep discharge) battery because I consider it unsafe to charge non-sealed batteries indoors. A marine or deep discharge battery is preferable to a car battery because it recovers better from deep discharge. I have an 100Ah battery that gives me in excess of 50 hours of run time. I say in excess of because that is the longest I have needed my stove to run on it.
I have a battery charger and a battery tender. The charger gives me quick recovery (at 6A for up to 12 hours) and then I switch to the battery tender to maintain the charge. They can be connected at the same time for convenience.
A simple Voltmeter will help you evaluate the state of charge of a battery. Measurements should be taken after the battery has been off the charger for about an hour. These are approximations: 12.6V is a fully charged battery, 12.2V is the lowest a battery should be stored at, 10.5V is a fully depleted battery
Batteries are usually at only about half charge capacity when you buy them, so I would get my battery and get it charged in advance.
When working with multiple batteries one should only connect batteries in parallel if they are at comparable states of charge. You might be better off running from one battery until it is depleted and then shutting down your stove to change to another. Chances are your stove will shut down for a cleaning before the battery is fully depleted.
On battery you will have to manually light the stove so I suggest you buy some fire starter gel. It is basically sterno in a squeeze bottle.
When running on battery I set my Mt Vernon to manual mode and the smallest heat output setting that will keep me comfortable.
I hope this information helps.

wow - exactly what I needed. Thanks!

 

[Steve Dimmick]

I have the opportunity to use a friend of mines 450w stovesentry SF502h? on my US Stoves 5510. Was told by US Stove that the max wattage output for this stove is 700w. Now im assuming it's 700 at startup with the ignitor, so If i manually fire this up if the power is out, will i be ok or will i need to disconnect the ignitor?

Another issue is i dont believe this stovesentry is a pure sine inverter, i dont want to fry my control board, will i be ok with this?

Also, will a Everstart Marine battery from Walmart be ok for my battery backup? How many hours will this give me with one battery during an outage?

Sorry for butting in on this tread, it was similar to what I needed to ask. Thanks for all the help in advance.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

I have the opportunity to use a friend of mines 450w stovesentry SF502h? on my US Stoves 5510. Was told by US Stove that the max wattage output for this stove is 700w. Now im assuming it's 700 at startup with the ignitor, so If i manually fire this up if the power is out, will i be ok or will i need to disconnect the ignitor?

Another issue is i dont believe this stovesentry is a pure sine inverter, i dont want to fry my control board, will i be ok with this?

Also, will a Everstart Marine battery from Walmart be ok for my battery backup? How many hours will this give me with one battery during an outage?

Sorry for butting in on this tread, it was similar to what I needed to ask. Thanks for all the help in advance.

1. I would assume that the stove is still going to try to run the igniter, so I would think that it would have to be disconnected.
2. I don't think that it will fry the control board (no promises) it is more likely that the controls might mis-operate. This is in itself a dangerous situation.
3. For safety make sure that your battery is a sealed deep discharge type. Flooded cell batteries can outgas hydrogen during charging. Hydrogen is highly explosive.
4. The battery capacity and the power used by both the stove and the stovesentry determine how much run time you will get. It is simply a matter of how many Watt hours you have and how you spend them. Watt hours is equal to Battery Voltage x Battery Ampere hour rating x 0.8. I use a factor of 0.8 because you can't drain all of the charge from a battery.

 

[Steve Dimmick]

should I assume this is true then?

12v battery x 125 A.H. x .8 = 1200? is that minutes?

Thanks for your help!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

should I assume this is true then?

12v battery x 125 A.H. x .8 = 1200? is that minutes?

Thanks for your help!

Usable wattage not time.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

12v battery x 125 A.H. x .8 = 1200? is that minutes?

That is Watt hours. Now you need to evaluate your load to determine the required Watts. Divide Watt hours by Watts and you have an estimate of how many hours the stove will run. for example if the stove and inverter require 100W they will run for 12 hours.

 

[Steve Dimmick]

wow, they tell me my stove is 700 watts, that means less than 2 hours? Sorry to be so clueless about this, im def. no electrical engineer.

There's got to be another option to get 4-8 hours? Inverter Generators need filled every 4 hours, but that might be my way to go as long as it's pure sine from what i read.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

wow, they tell me my stove is 700 watts, that means less than 2 hours? Sorry to be so clueless about this, im def. no electrical engineer.

There's got to be another option to get 4-8 hours? Inverter Generators need filled every 4 hours, but that might be my way to go as long as it's pure sine from what i read.

Your stove likely averages far less than 700 watts and a decent generator can run for more than 4 hours on a single tank.

 

[Woody1911a1]

700 w is max which is when igniting . my stove spec is 520 w starting 160 w running . buy a kill a watt http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009MDBU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 a cheap handy tool

 

[Harvey Schneider]

wow, they tell me my stove is 700 watts,

700 w is max which is when igniting . my stove spec is 520 w starting 160 w running

They have to state the max power for line loading purposes. The running power is always much less because the igniter takes a lot of power. Woody, your 160W running sounds high. Is that the current with all blowers running at max? Realistically I don't think your load should be that high. In an emergency situation I would slow down everything to a medium setting. That is why I gave 100 Watts as an example.
My Mt Vernon was designed for battery operation. It runs directly from the 12V battery and adjusts its blowers so that it only pulls about 18W when running on battery as opposed to 24W when running on line. Turning the stove off mid day when power was out after hurricane Sandy I conserved power and had adequate heat for the three days power was off. I could have gone longer if necessary, but thankfully power came back.

 

[3jfk]

They have to state the max power for line loading purposes. The running power is always much less because the igniter takes a lot of power. Woody, your 160W running sounds high. Is that the current with all blowers running at max? Realistically I don't think your load should be that high. In an emergency situation I would slow down everything to a medium setting. That is why I gave 100 Watts as an example.
My Mt Vernon was designed for battery operation. It runs directly from the 12V battery and adjusts its blowers so that it only pulls about 18W when running on battery as opposed to 24W when running on line. Turning the stove off mid day when power was out after hurricane Sandy I conserved power and had adequate heat for the three days power was off. I could have gone longer if necessary, but thankfully power came back.

Hi Harvey, Did you purchase the battery power cord or make one yourself? Just asking as the OEM cords are so expensive for some basic componets. Thanks for all the info above, this make me want to set up the battery back up rather then using a gas generator. Jon

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Hi Harvey, Did you purchase the battery power cord or make one yourself? Just asking as the OEM cords are so expensive for some basic componets. Thanks for all the info above, this make me want to set up the battery back up rather then using a gas generator. Jon

I agree that the cable was outrageously overpriced, but I didn't have any idea what connector that was or the wiring. I suppose I could have figured it out, but I got lazy and paid for one ready made. I am actually glad I did. A wiring error there could have done some real damage. Understand that this is my field of expertise but when I weighed the convenience and the risk vs cost, convenience won.

 

[WoodPorn]

"wow, they tell me my stove is 700 watts, that means less than 2 hours?"


Parallel two batteries and double your runtime

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Paralell two batteries and double your runtime

Yes, quite true, and a common practice. Because of the novice audience here I feel obligated to caution everyone: "Don't add a charged battery in parallel with a depleted battery." Batteries need to be at a similar state of charge when you put them in parallel. Batteries should also be of similar size.

 

[3jfk]

I weighed the convenience and the risk vs cost, convenience won.

Thanks, I agree with that statement. I see someone selling homemade ones on ebay, but with shipping you don't save that much compared to OEM.

 

[Steve Dimmick]

Thanks guys, all your info is appreciated!

 

[briansol]

My stove peaks around 850 watts during start up.
regular operation, it flucuates between 60 and 180 watts (when auger turns). So it probably averages around 100 watts run time on medium.