Best performance ever from my Englander NC-30

[Seasoned Oak]

Today i tried a little suggestion i learned here on hearth.com about the 30. It seems that gap in the two fibreboards of about 1/4 in or so most of these stoves have is not a design feature. For years i have noticed some flames and smoke going out around the sides and thru center between the boards.I thought it was there for a reason. That 1/4 In gap translates into about 4+ square inches of area where wood gas escapes up the flue bypassing the reburn tubes. Perhaps that why i was getting more smoke from the 30 than any other stove i have at all stages of the burn. Someone here suggested that gap can be filled with a metal rod to tighten up the fit of those boards.I cut a 1/4 piece of steel rod, and it just fit between the two pieces perfectly.
Well i can tell you the stove is performing better than iv ever seen it before. loads of secondaries, i can turn the air down farther and get more heat as well. It made quite an improvement in the way to stove performs.
I have a new respect for the capabilities of the stove. The Mfg should provide a fix for this IMO to improve the stove performance. (if they dont already)

 

[CenterTree]

Very interesting and informative. What year is your stove?

So, not all of the 30's have the issue?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

My circa '09 did. I shoved the boards together and insulated the edges.

 

[BrotherBart]

The guy that came up with shoving a steel rod through a piece of 1/4" gasket rope to seal it on the side must be a freakin genius.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I heard he has a heck of a smoker in his back yard too.

 

[aaron1]

Seasoned Oak, can you take a picture of what you are talking about?

 

[Hoozie]

I did that modification when I installed mine, from the recommendations I got from here. Is it bad that I've contemplated getting some 1/4" kaowool and some steel to hold it down, just to overlay and help seal each seam between the boards, and the board/walls?

Now, I think my other burning issues are mostly due to my crappy chimney.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Very interesting and informative. What year is your stove?
So, not all of the 30's have the issue?

One in Feb 2010 and one in Sept 2010 but either one could have been made in 09. Both have this issue.
Im seeing all around better performance. also hotter stovetop while on lower air setting.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

The guy that came up with shoving a steel rod through a piece of 1/4" gasket rope to seal it on the side must be a freakin genius.

Thats about the size of the gap 1/4 In. With the steel rod in the middle there is virtually no gap either in the middle or on either side. Of course you could put the rod on one side as well,but i chose the middle so i could keep an eye on it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Why punish the thing in the direct flame path. It is just gonna warp and open the hole back up. Put it on either side.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Now, I think my other burning issues are mostly due to my crappy chimney.

I actually have this stove connected to a 12" Chimney and yes the draft is weak. Still runs like a champ.

My circa '09 did. I shoved the boards together and insulated the edges.

On my country hearth stove the fibreboard is one piece and seems to be pressed in.Its very tight. That is another reason for me to think these things are not supposed to have gaps.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Why punish the thing in the direct flame path. It is just gonna warp and open the hole back up. Put it on either side.

Ill keep an eye on it,if it looks like its suffering ill move it . I have a bunch of this rod. It was holding a cast iron radiator together at one time.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Seasoned Oak, can you take a picture of what you are talking about?

THe stove is in my workshop across town,not in my house,but ill try to remember tomorrow to get a pic.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

On my country hearth stove the fibreboard is one piece and seems to be pressed in.Its very tight. That is another reason for me to think these things are not supposed to have gaps.

Any gap is going to let smoke bypass the secondaries and not give you the most heat possible per split. I'm not sure how much those boards expand and contract, but there are ways to encourage the smoke path without stopping the expansion and contraction of the metal. It's all about price point. Englander could spend more on making boards fit better, but then they would have to add more to the price and we wouldn't have the $900 heat monster.

 

[aaron1]

No big deal, I'm just curious as to what you are talking about. Is this only an issue for Englander non-cats?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I don't think Englander makes cat stoves anymore.

We're discussing the baffle design above the secondary tubes.

 

[BrotherBart]

Those boards have been an eternal fascination for me. 1/8" more each and they would be perfect. And still fit in and out of the door when you drop the first two tubes for cleaning. I wish I had noticed that before I was down in Monroe talking to Bob Pennington, in the burn lab, that designed the thing. Fact still remains that with those boards the way they are the stove turned in the cleanest EPA test burns to that date of any large firebox wood stove.

Go figure.

 

[aaron1]

Sorry, EBL, I knew my post would be confusing. I just meant that I was wondering if this baffle issue was only an issue in Englanders or in other brands, like my Jotul.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Any gap is going to let smoke bypass the secondaries and not give you the most heat possible per split. I'm not sure how much those boards expand and contract, but there are ways to encourage the smoke path without stopping the expansion and contraction of the metal. It's all about price point. Englander could spend more on making boards fit better, but then they would have to add more to the price and we wouldn't have the $900 heat monster.

THeir prices range from 650 to 900 so there should be is plenty of room in there for such as small mod.
How much more could it possibly cost to make the boards overlap so they would not separate. Simply by making the boards about 1/2" wider and cutting an opposing notch in each would allow the board to expand and contract while not opening a gap. Such a small mod for a good performance boost is well worth it. Ill surely do the same to my other 30 as well.

 

[Huntindog1]

I would suggest adding a 1/2 inch layer of 2100 degree ceramic insulation on top of the ceramic boards like alot of other stoves have. Over size it to seal up the edges and any other gaps.

The extra insulation up around the secondary burn tubes will help keep the heat up around the tubes during lower stove settings. Keeping them firing off.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

. Fact still remains that with those boards the way they are the stove turned in the cleanest EPA test burns to that date of any large firebox wood stove.
Go figure.

Should be even cleaner yet if the smoke is not escaping around the boards.

 

[BrotherBart]

Should be even cleaner yet if the smoke is not escaping around the boards.

Ya think?

 

[jreed]

Now these are the kind of dicussions I like to see. Now to find a place to get a steel rod

 

[Hoozie]

The 'problem' I noticed on mine, was that the hole for the baffles is slightly trapezoidal, not square. I ended up using just the rope on the back half, with an 1/8" welding rod in the rope on the front half.

If the hole was truly square, then it would be easier to make the baffles fit tighter. BUT, there would still be tolerances, and the possibility for a small gap.

 

[pen]

Now these are the kind of dicussions I like to see. Now to find a place to get a steel rod

A couple of years ago I shoved piece of a metal coat hanger into a piece of gasket rope and stuck it in the right side. This thread made me look to see if it's still there.

It is!

pen