Best way to size a wood stove

[bbc557ci]

Hi, I'm new to the site. I'll start off by wishing everyone a Merry Christmas!!

I've spent the last few hours reading through posts on this forum and can tell there are allot of well informed people here. This is a great place!

That said, I could sure use some advice. I live in central NY State and presently heat our house with LP gas. The cost to heat with LP is well, crazy to say the least. So, I've decided to put a wood stove in and use it as the primary heat source. In reading many of the posts here, I've come to realize that much of the information included in manufacturers brochers can be less than adequate, when deciding on the right size and type of stove.

Regarding the size of the stove, I've read in several posts that using the size of the fire box in the stove is a good way to choose a stove. Possibly better than using the manufacturers BTU ratings, or their max square foot heating capacity.

I'll describe our house as clearly as I can. The house is a "salt box" design with full basement. I plan to locate the stove on the main/1st floor in the living room. The 1st floor contains +,-900 SF. About 1/2 of that is a living room with a vaulted ceiling. The ceiling is 8 FT at the short side, and 17 FT at the high side. The kitchen and dining room are in the other half of the 1st floor. Both have large arch ways separating them from the living room. Upstairs is about 400 SF and there are two bedrooms. Doors to the bedrooms are open and or visible from the living room. All in all, the house has a relatively open design. So I think heat from a stove located in the living room would reach all areas/rooms pretty well.

The house is about 20 years old. Insulation, windows, and doors are "adequate" but certainly not air tight. The windows and doors leak a little when the wind blows, but not real bad. The house is located at a relatively high elevation and is not protected much from wind by trees, other houses. In other words, we live in the sticks

I plan to locate the stove in the living room next to a gable wall, and run insulated chimney material straight up from the stove, through the ceiling/roof. There will be about 10-11 feet of chimney inside, and about another 10 feet of chimney above roof level, to conform to code.

Total SF of living area (not including the basement) is about 1400 SF. With the vaulted ceiling, my guess is it would be comparable to heating a 1600 SF house ..... a guestimate on my part. I need to take into consideration the cold central NY winters and wind when choosing the right stove. Mixed hardwood is readily available in our area.

I like both the Jotel cast iron, and the Hearthstone soap stone stoves. Both are available locally and they both seem to have great reputations for quality. And they are both good looking units. But man, I sure could use some advise on what size stove to get :question:

Any help would be greatly appreciated !!

Oh.... sorry for such a long post .......

Thanks -

 

[webbie]

Merry Christmas to you also!

Hope you read the basic article at:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/choosing_a_wood_stove

The idea is this - you have to determine how much wood you can get - or are likely to get. Sizing a stove to heat 100% in the coldest weather can often mean it is oversized for the shoulder seasons. A lot of people figure on the stove for 65 to 85% of their heat.....but, then again, nothing wrong with trying for 100. You just need a bigger wood pile and stove to do it.

So my main advice is to think about how you are going to use the stove? 24/7? Then a firebox of at least 2.5 cubic feet is probably a good idea.

With Jotul, you are going to want to go to the Oslo or the Firelight.....with HearthStone, the Mansfield will do a heck of job in terms of max. heating. Again, if you are going to only burn "x" amount of wood - like 2 or 3 cords a year, then you may want to do down one size.

 

[Mike Wilson]

If you are going to use this as your primary source of heat, go large. With large, you get two advantages, one more obvious than the other. First, you get more heat. Now, is there the possibility that you'll get "too much" heat... maybe. But, you can regulate that by not loading the stove as much, or by cracking a window. The second advantage you get is time. After one has a wood stove running 24/7 for a year or so, and the romance lessens (it never truly ends), you begin to realize that while you enjoy the heat, the savings, and the ambiance, you don't enjoy feeding the thing. The larger the stove, the less frequently you need to feed it (longer burn time)... and the less frequently you need to feed her, the better. That said, here's what I would suggest:

Get a Hearthstone Mansfield. Yes, as much as I love Jotul's looks and quality, I think a freestanding Hearthstone has some fabulous qualities. First off, it's a large stove, guaranteed to make it through the night with good heat output. Second, all that soapstone will regulate the heat output, giving you a steadier heat source with fewer temperature fluctuations throughout the burn cycle. Now, if you like the look of cast iron, a (broken link removed to http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-600-Firelight-CB/) will do the job as well.
If you really want to go nuts, check out the (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/wood_stoves/equinox/)... massive... simply massive... certainly overkill... and probably a black hole for wood... but wow. (I just noticed they even make this behemoth).

There are some other stoves that you can consider as well, Quadrafire makes some fine, large stoves. You'll also see large Lopi/Avalons, etc. People will make suggestions, and seeing as most all stoves made now are of good quality, consider them all, but go with what will reliably heat your home, and will look nice (to you) while doing it.

The only other thing I would suggest, if you have a coal supplier nearby, is to consider a coal stove, like the (broken link removed to http://www.harmanstoves.com/features.asp?id=4). Much less tending, lots of inexpensive heat, and nowhere near as messy as coal stoves in the past. Oh, and no chimney required.

-- Mike

 

[bbc557ci]

Merry Christmas to you also!

Hope you read the basic article at:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/choosing_a_wood_stove

The idea is this - you have to determine how much wood you can get - or are likely to get. Sizing a stove to heat 100% in the coldest weather can often mean it is oversized for the shoulder seasons. A lot of people figure on the stove for 65 to 85% of their heat.....but, then again, nothing wrong with trying for 100. You just need a bigger wood pile and stove to do it.

So my main advice is to think about how you are going to use the stove? 24/7? Then a firebox of at least 2.5 cubic feet is probably a good idea.

With Jotul, you are going to want to go to the Oslo or the Firelight.....with HearthStone, the Mansfield will do a heck of job in terms of max. heating. Again, if you are going to only burn "x" amount of wood - like 2 or 3 cords a year, then you may want to do down one size.

Thank you so for the quick reply. Plenty of wood available around here so I'm planning to burn 24/7. I work from home (dining room is home/office) so I'd be around to keep the home fires burning, so to speak. Judging from what a couple of wood burning friends say regarding their wood usage, I expect I'd go through probably 11-14 face cords per season.

A sales person at one shop I stopped at suggested the Jotel F400. For my application I thought it might a bit small, and was thinking the F500 Olso might be a better choice. Another shop I stopped at suggested the Mansfield. I thought the Mansfield might be on the large side.
This will be a learning experience for sure.

Winter where we live is generally quite cold, often with plenty of wind. I understand your statement regarding the "shoulder seasons". Assuming fire wood is properly seasoned, is creasote build up a concern with these newer clean burning stoves during the shoulder seasons when the stove is not burning as hot as it does in mid winter?

I always research before I make decisions (maybe too much), and appreciate the link you posted. I will read the article for sure.

Thanks again !!

 

[Harley]

Another consideration would be if if have a ceiling fan in the living room with the vaulted ceiling. That should help a lot regardless of the stove you choose. The Mansfield is certainly a beautiful stove, and would take care of the really cold spells, and you could always burn much smaller fires during the more mild times. My initial thought is that it might be a little bit of over-kill (and nothing wrong with that). Given the total sf that the stove would realistically need to heat, I'd put the Heritage in the running there as well (I'll admit - I'm a little partial) - just throwing that out since you are obviously looking at the Hearthstone lineup. If you are looking at soapstone for for the even heat output - have you considered the Woodstock stoves?

 

[bbc557ci]

Hi Mike,

Yes the Equinox is a monster. Heck if I put that in I could run a duck with a fan over to my detached garage LOL.

Actually I had a Keystoker in the basement for about 15 years. I did some tin knocking and tied it into the forced air furnace plenum. Then put a limit switch in the plenum so the fan to the LP gas furnace would kick on and blow heat upstairs from the coal furnace. It worked great. The plot thickens.....my 21 year old gas furnace pooped out a couple of months ago so I had it replaced with a high efficiancy unit, and removed the coal stove too. I've been considering one of the newer direct vent coal stoves but have wanted a wood stove or efficiant fire place in the living room since I built the place 21 years ago. A coal burner is not completely out of the relm of possibility yet. But, my 21 year old dream of a nice wood stove seems to be winning out and I'm pretty sure that's the route I will go. Wife likes the wood stove idea too. Something to be said for that ;-)

Hearthstone and Jotel are all I've looked at so far. And I plan to take a look at other brands. But I must say, the soap stone stoves sure are purdy.

Bill

 

[burnham]

Your house is very similar to mine. 1400 sq ft, 1/2 open to the attic, bedroom and a loft upstairs. It's kinda leaky, the cheapest windows you could get in the early 80's, 4 big skylights, gas heat. I ended up going with the Hearthstone Mansfield. Everything said in the post above is true, so I won't repeat it. The stove is three years old, it does turn out very even heat, and it is a pig. I burn 75% ( usually all night, but not always) of the time from January to March, less in the warmer months, with a target temp of 75 degrees. Six cords last year. The only negative with the soapstone is you don't get home, make a fire, and have decent heat right away. It takes a while to get up t temp. Good luck.

 

[bbc557ci]

Another consideration would be if if have a ceiling fan in the living room with the vaulted ceiling. That should help a lot regardless of the stove you choose. The Mansfield is certainly a beautiful stove, and would take care of the really cold spells, and you could always burn much smaller fires during the more mild times. My initial thought is that it might be a little bit of over-kill (and nothing wrong with that). Given the total sf that the stove would realistically need to heat, I'd put the Heritage in the running there as well (I'll admit - I'm a little partial) - just throwing that out since you are obviously looking at the Hearthstone lineup. If you are looking at soapstone for for the even heat output - have you considered the Woodstock stoves?

I have 2 ceiling fans in the living room and figured I could do a little "R&D;" with them, figuring they would be of benefit. I have looked at the Woodstocks but only on the net. I'm not sure if there are any dealers locally for them. But the search is not over yet nor is my mind made up. To be honest I'd like to buy local to keep the money local. Plus in case I run into a problem it would be nice to have the supplier close by. Nope, I haven't rulled out the Heritage, but thinking it might be too close to "just the right size". I'd like to do a bit of over kill, as long as it works.

I gotta say I'm really glad I stumbled accross this site. At least I know my thoughts/guesses regarding stove size were at least in the ball park.

Thanks again for the responses.

Bill

 

[bbc557ci]

Your house is very similar to mine. 1400 sq ft, 1/2 open to the attic, bedroom and a loft upstairs. It's kinda leaky, the cheapest windows you could get in the early 80's, 4 big skylights, gas heat. I ended up going with the Hearthstone Mansfield. Everything said in the post above is true, so I won't repeat it. The stove is three years old, it does turn out very even heat, and it is a pig. I burn 75% ( usually all night, but not always) of the time from January to March, less in the warmer months, with a target temp of 75 degrees. Six cords last year. The only negative with the soapstone is you don't get home, make a fire, and have decent heat right away. It takes a while to get up t temp. Good luck.

burn - I had a small general contracting business for about 25 years. I saw so many problems with sky lights, I resisted the temptation to put them in my house when I built it. On nice bright sunny days I wish I had them. But in the winter I don't miss them. Yep, the ol' windows do leak a bit of air. So much for wear and tear, and 20 year old technology.

As you mention (and as I've read) the soap stone does produce a nice even heat. As you also mention (and again as I've read) when the fire goes out, you will be a little cold for a while before/until it's loaded up and producing heat. So far, that is the only concern I have with the soap stones. Plus they are a bit more pricey than the cast stoves.

decisions decisions ..............

 

[jpl1nh]

Your description of your home is extremely similar to mine. Currently I have a Woodstock Keystone and as much as I love this stove, it is not capable of 100% of the heat in the coldest weather. I think the Woodstock Fireview would work for your set up. They are a New England company who will ship directly to you and provide superb service. Having said all that, I also agree with all the other advice here, the Mansfield and the Fire Light are great choices too. Interesting that the bottom line in our Keystone is that even at full bore it just cannot burn wood fast enough to produce the BTU's necessary for the coldest weather. Kind of funny really that there is a limit on how fast a stove can burn wood but that is the bottom line. To burn faster you need the bigger fire box of a stove like the Mansfield, Fireview, or Fire Light. We may in the long run get a larger stove or we may just keep this one because of it's beautiful fire viewing qualities and supplement with the very small amount of additional heat necessary in the coldest weather with our furnace.

 

[begreen]

Big stoves are nice for the above mentioned reasons, but there is a point of overkill. Too big a stove can be a waste of money. If the castiron/soapstone is not up to temp, the stove can run inefficiently. For a 1400 sq. ft., 20 year old house my recommendation is to not go for the largest stove. A Jotul Oslo is a nice fit. The Hearthstone Mansfield is a big stove and slightly overkill, but Hearthstone doesn't make a 2.5 cu ft stove and the next size down is 2.0 cu ft., so it is a compromise. The Equinox could heat your entire neighborhood, not a good fit. However, another soapstone stove to consider would be the Woodstock Fireview. They are sold dealer direct from VT. Another castiron stove to look at would be the Morso 3610.

 

[bbc557ci]

Begreen - The floor areas down stairs and up stairs works out to about to 1400 sf. But my thinking is, the vauted ceiling in the living room (room is about 29 x 16) adds to the square foot/cubic foot area. On cold days when I sit in the living room I can feel the cool air "dropping" down. So it seems I need to get some heat to the upper ceiling area. Point well taken, I agree it seems the Mansfield is a bit overkill. But if it's doable I'd rather have a little too much than not enough.

I don't think the Mansfield (or similar size) will be too much stove this time of year. What concerns me is, if the stove is at a slow burn in the fall or late winter/spring, will creasote build up in the chimney be an issue after slower burn.

Bill

 

[jpl1nh]

Your concern about creosote build up with a large stove during the shoulder seasons highlights another advantage to the Woodstock Fireview. The Woodstock products are cat stoves which I feel perform more effectively at a lower stove temp than the secondary burn systems such as Hearthstone and Jotul.

 

[Burn-1]

Hearthstone doesn't make a 2.5 cu ft stove and the next size down is 2.0 cu ft

The Bennington is 2.5 cu ft but not soapstone, and the Heritage and Phoenix are 2.3 and 2.2 cu ft, respectively. Those all sound like they might fit. I also think the Mansfield would be too much. Unless you had lots of poplar or pine I don't think you could get a clean burn during the shoulder seasons.

However, another soapstone stove to consider would be the Woodstock Fireview. They are sold dealer direct from VT.

As an NH chauvinist, I will chime in that these fine stoves are hand-built in and sold directly from the Granite State.

Edit: Woodstock puts out this (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/guidepdfs/woodstove_sizing.pdf) which has a generalized climate map that I think is a pretty good thumbnail sketch for heat needs.

 

[Gooserider]

I think the Mansfield would be a bit much, but I think the Heritage at 2.3cu.ft. would be about the right size. You might also look at the VC Cat stoves (I don't feel comfortable with the VC Non-Cat / Everburn stoves at present) - either the Encore or the Defiant might work well.

Considering that you should be cleaning the chimney anually regardless, I don't think that shoulder season creosote will be a big issue - you probably won't get much, and you will get rid of what you do in the anual cleaning.

Gooserider

 

[webbie]

1600 Sq ft in Central NY state is like 2500 in southern NJ!

Cold stuff.......

I'm sticking with my 2.5 Cubic feet UP. The Phoenix was copied (firebox wise) from the Avalon mid-size units, which are great heaters but you simply cannot get that much wood in them....and, being non-cat, they tend to burn a little hotter and faster. The Woodstock and cat suggestions are good for long burns and the ability to operate in shoulder season....

In the HearthStone line though, I'd go bigger (Mansfield)...that heat will get lost up at the ceiling and is the down side ends up being able to not fire the stove 24/7 when the daytime temps hit 45 or above....well, that might not be a big deal. Setting up a nice hearth and backwall with a lot of masonry mass might allow you to fire the stove for a few hours in the shoulder season and then let it go out and enjoy the stored heat.

I'm just not comfortable with non-cats under 2.5 CF in a cold NY State winter for 100% heat. I think it WOULD produce the heat, but you might have to go to bed late and wake up early....and, to me, that is a big down side....

 

[bbc557ci]

Something I just thought of, I'd like to figure out a way to force feed some heat into the basement. The laundry and a small work shop are down there. There's a closet wall about 3 feet from where I plan to locate the stove. I'm thinking a cold air return grill near the top of the wall, and then box in a fan/blower to pull some warm air into the basement. There's another wall in the living room that would accept a similar arrangement. Sucking heat into the basement would rob a bit of warm air from the living area. Given that, the Mansfield may not be much overkill after all.

I'll be stopping in at a few more stove shops this week to see what's available, and what my options are. I'll mention also, I'd like to go with a non cat stove. Just for ease of operation and simplicity. If I'm not around my wife may need to fuel the stove. The simpler the better, trust me.

It's late.... maybe I'm becomming delerious....

Thanks again for all the input and advice.

 

[babalu87]

I agree with a few comments here, you need a 2+ cubic foot firebox. A Morso 3610 would be a good choice as well, I heat an 1800 sq foot cape easily with mine.
As far as dealer recommendations, would you take a dealers recommendation when buying a car/truck?

If you can get warm air to move DOWN please let us all know, many have tried.

 

[bbc557ci]

I agree with a few comments here, you need a 2+ cubic foot firebox. A Morso 3610 would be a good choice as well, I heat an 1800 sq foot cape easily with mine.
As far as dealer recommendations, would you take a dealers recommendation when buying a car/truck?

If you can get warm air to move DOWN please let us all know, many have tried.

Well, I've only been driving for a tad over 40 years now. So of course when I walk into the showroom to buy a new truck, I hang on every word the dealer says. You don't?

Seriously, the only wood stove I'm familiar with is the old style round Shanandoa that stands on end. Not much more than a steel drum with a hole in the top. So now that I'm considering a new style stove, and walked in to a couple of stove dealer's shops knowing little or nothing about the new stoves, yeah I listened to the salesman. Ya gotta start somewhere, right?

Heat into the basement/warm air down ....... If I figure that out I'll let you know for sure.

I looked up Morso on the net. But found I need to freshen up my metric skills to sort out the info. Any place on the net that provides the specs in good ol' USA lingo ??

 

[babalu87]

LOL
I hear you, this site should be able to answer any questions you may have and depending on what you buy there should be people who can help you with anything that comes up with it down the road.
These new stoves are much different than the old "smoke dragons" but there isnt that much of a learning curve.

Here are the specs on the Morso 3610, you need to go to their US homepage.
http://www.morsoe.com/us/Products/Stoves/3610/Model_3610/Morsø+3610.htm

Dealers in your area
(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/us/resellers/Find_a_dealer/ny.htm)

 

[bbc557ci]

I hope to "steal" a little time from work this week and next week to continue the search. A couple of the dealers are within 20 miles of me so I'll plan on checking them out.

Thank you for the links. Especially the US home page ;o)

 

[jbrown56]

Hi, I've been running my new stove for about two months now after using my old steel stove for 26 years. When I first started looking at new stoves I was really confused as to whether to get soapstone or cast. Everyone seems to like the blast of heat you can get from a cast stove so that was the deciding factor. I was also concerned with the size of the new stoves because the fireboxes looked small. I heat 2100 sq. ft., 24/7, the stove is centrally located and have cathedral ceilings on the second floor. I was considering the F 600 and am glad I chose the F 500. What a heater! It is far more than what I expected and seems to put out more heat with less wood than the old stove. I've been burning for about 2 1/2 months now and only burned about 1 1/2 cords of wood so far and we had a cold December. I also installed an ss rigid liner three weeks ago and it improved my draft a whole lot. I can't say enough good things about my new stove, and by the way, the secondary burn is spectacular.

Hope this helps

Jim

 

[begreen]

Something I just thought of, I'd like to figure out a way to force feed some heat into the basement. The laundry and a small work shop are down there. There's a closet wall about 3 feet from where I plan to locate the stove. I'm thinking a cold air return grill near the top of the wall, and then box in a fan/blower to pull some warm air into the basement. There's another wall in the living room that would accept a similar arrangement. Sucking heat into the basement would rob a bit of warm air from the living area. Given that, the Mansfield may not be much overkill after all.

I'll be stopping in at a few more stove shops this week to see what's available, and what my options are. I'll mention also, I'd like to go with a non cat stove. Just for ease of operation and simplicity. If I'm not around my wife may need to fuel the stove. The simpler the better, trust me.

It's late.... maybe I'm becomming delerious....

Thanks again for all the input and advice.

I wouldn't bother with this approach. It's usually quite ineffective. Is the basement insulated? If not, that is likely going to be a better investment.

Regardless of stove choice, you will want a ceiling fan in the great room to reduce heat stratification at the ceiling peak.

 

[bbc557ci]

jbrown - Yes, it does help. Real world stuff is always good.

BeGreen - The basement is partially insulated. With no or limited heat, it generally stays around 58-60 degrees. I have so much junk (according to the wife) in the basement, insulating the rest of it would be a major project. As warm air does not like to go down hill I realize forcing warm air down there would be a challange. If I could get another 8 - 10 or so degrees down there, that would be good. If forcing warm air from the stove doesn't work out, I guess I could blast some air from the LP furnace into the basement when I need to. Just hate to feed the utility company more than necessary.

Thanks gents

 

[bbc557ci]

jbrown - I've been trying to find out the size of the fire box in the F500 (and other Jotul's) and have not had much success. Nothing in the broshure, and I haven't been able to find the sizes on the net. Do you know how many CF the box is in your 500 ??

I hear you on the heat blast with cast stoves. I like that idea too. But don't know if I'd get a full overnight burn/heat with a cast stove. How has that worked out for you ? I don't wanna get up at O'dark:30 to add logs if I don't have to.

Yep ..... I'm a whimp LOL

Bill