Bigger stove with small fire or small stove with bigger fire?

[scoooter]

Help, I am a newbie looking at the Buck Stove either Model 74 or Model 21 inserts with the blower. My house is well insulated 2200 square feet, the air return is about 15 feet away from the fireplace and there are no ceiling fans in that room and I am located in central Maryland.

Is it better to get a smaller stove and have bigger fires in it or get the bigger stove and have smaller fires in it. I am worried about cooking myself out of the main room, the house is also heated with natural gas, but I am trying to cut out the amount I run it.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Slow1]

I don't know the specs of those stoves off the top of my head (and am too lazy to look them up now), but in general you can assume that the marketing is 'generous' to say the least when they state how much they can heat. Very few folks end up not liking a larger stove (it does happen of course), but I think I've seen far more folks looking to upgrade.

Of course if you WAY overdo it then you won't be able to have an efficient fire in the stove... I'm sure folks who know those stoves will chime in and warn you if you are too far off the deep end here...

 

[Jags]

With a ratio of about 100:1 with the one wishing they had a smaller stove (from comments on this site) - go bigger. Better yet - go "just right". :cheese:

 

[Chargerman]

I wouldn't even consider a 21 for 2300 sqft. Do you not want to consider a catalytic stove? A Buck Model 80 or even a 91 would be nice. I feel with an insert you are going to need more size than a freestanding unit because the radiant heat is less. Make sure whatever you get has a decent fan to get the heat out. You can load it up and forget about it.

I have a big Country Flame cat model similar to the Buck 91 and would never go smaller. My house is roughly the same size as yours and fairly open floorplan. What type of house do you have?

 

[scoooter]

It is a two story plus a finished basement. The master is at the other end of the house and up one floor. I never thought about getting a catalytic stove, since I really know nothing about them. Both the 80 and the 91 are too big for my fireplace. I only have 22 1/2" of height. I am currently leaning towards the 74.

Scott

 

[firefighterjake]

I've always advised (based on the good advice I got here when looking at stoves) to figure out the size stove you need for your home . . . and then go one size larger. The numbers in the glossy brochures are based on lab tests and may not take into account your climate, home design (open vs. closed), insulation, etc. and so they need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I figure it is always far, far easier to build a smaller fire in a larger stove when you may not need as much heat . . . such as the shoulder season . . . than it is to need more heat in the dead of winter and not be able to build that larter fire in a smaller stove.

If you look back at folks who have traded in their old stoves or bought a new stove . . . just in the threads here . . . I suspect you'll find far, far more people complaining that their original stove was too small and the house too cold vs. people who have traded in their stove because it was too big and they were too hot. Most of the time, the advice of going one size larger works for most people and most circumstances.

That said . . . as Slow mentioned . . . there is such a thing as too big and too much (I know, I know . . . many of us guys do not believe in such a thing) . . . going too big will in fact either lead you to a) being driven out of the house by the extreme heat, b) not using the stove due to the extreme heat, c) contributing to global warming by only burning with the windows wide open or d) inefficient fires where you are constantly loading the stove with small loads.

 

[Slow1]

To add to Chargerman's comments - I would look into what cat stoves are available that would fit and see if any may work out for you. A well designed cat stove should not suffer from the "too large and roasting you out of the room" problem as you should be able to bring it down quite a bit and still burn clean even with a larger load/firebox in there. I just don't know what options are available for inserts.

Now if you were talking about putting a free standing stove in front of that fireplace all sorts of options open up

 

[Chargerman]

It is a two story plus a finished basement. The master is at the other end of the house and up one floor. I never thought about getting a catalytic stove, since I really know nothing about them. Both the 80 and the 91 are too big for my fireplace. I only have 22 1/2" of height. I am currently leaning towards the 74.

Scott

What are your width and depth measurements? You are right at the limit with the 74 according to the specs on height. Make sure you double check everything before buying anything. Hooking up the flue pipe can be challenging with tight spaces.

 

[scoooter]

The dimensions are

Front opening is 33" wide by 22 1/2" tall

Image is looking down from the top

______23"______
/
22" / 22"
/
Front of fireplace

The 23" is the back wall and the sides are 22" deep at an angle.

 

[vvvv]

i voted smaller stove cause its more efficient but U can downsize the firebox by adding firebrix & enhance its efficiency

 

[scoooter]

Wouldn't putting firebricks in it decrease it's efficiency since the heat will stay inside more and not get out? As a newbie I am just wondering?

Thanks,

Scott

 

[madrone]

No. Don't do that.

Get a stove that's just a little on the larger size for your sq ft. Not huge, but big enough that you'll have the heat when you need it. I would be fine with a smaller stove 90% of the time, but I've been mighty glad to have a bigger one. I don't need a Blaze King, but I'm pretty sure I'd get sick of loading a Jotul 602 in an ice storm.

 

[joefrompa]

This is a pretty interesting discussion for me. My fireplace room is about 12 feet wide, but about 30 feet long. However, my couch/sitting area for the TV is 8-10 feet away from where my insert will go, and I want to make sure I'm burning enough to heat the desired space (about 1600 square feet with plenty of fans to spread hot air)...

I'm very concerned about the trade-off between size, immediate heat throw-off, total heating capacity, and price.

I'm looking at the Lopi 1750, which I can get for $2000 and which should meet my needs, has low emissions, and shouldn't overheat us....but again, the concern is whether it would be TOO small.

If I'm willing to spend another $600-700, I can step up to the Lopi Freedom which supposedly has a higher standard of construction quality and a much higher capacity.

My initial thinking was that it's better to have MORE capacity than needed: I can also choke the fire using the damper control and get longer burns out of less wood while keeping us from overheating. Now I'm wondering if I truly have that level of control or may be fooling myself....or whether I should spend the money up front for the higher quality unit with greater capacity for the future as I open up additional rooms to heating needs when children occur....

Joe

 

[vvvv]

Wouldn't putting firebricks in it decrease it's efficiency since the heat will stay inside more and not get out? As a newbie I am just wondering?

Thanks,

Scott

extra brix will reduce the size of the firebox & absorb heat which can only escape into the room or out the chimney. Epa stove is suposed to be full when starting so that when overhead burners ignite the primary air is shut off . this creates a hot zone on top which results in the load "burning"/gassifying from the top down. this is a more controlled gassification than if the wood was heated from the bottom up. a smaller stove burns more efficiently WITHOUT A DOUBT! so i suggested the extra firebrix which can be removed when colder if u want the bigger stove. when given advice, i ask for scientific explanations foremost.

 

[begreen]

Is this how you run your stove? Personally I don't like or recommend jerry-rigging anything in a hot firebox.

 

[vvvv]

Is this how you run your stove? Personally I don't like or recommend jerry-rigging anything in a hot firebox.

always playing with the stoves. what happened to vanessa video?

 

[Jags]

so i suggested the extra firebrix which can be removed when colder if u want the bigger stove. when given advice, i ask for scientific explanations foremost.

I disagree - I don't think the insulating value of the additional layer of firebricks have been taken into consideration. The fire itself may burn a little more efficiently, but the efficiency of the stove to heat the surrounding area will be diminished to some degree. It would be like taking a foam coffee cup full of hot coffee and sliding that inside of another coffee cup. Yep, the coffee may stay hotter for a longer period of time, but your fingers are going to stay cooler as well.

 

[madrone]

For one thing, it'll take forever to feel the heat with extra bricks in there. For another, you'll get mighty sick of installing and removing dirty firebricks, and you'll have to have someplace to keep them. They'll probably end up busted up from all the handling, too. PITA. If your stove is just a little larger, you won't be talking about a major loss of efficiency. Sure, a full load in a smaller stove is technically more efficient, but the reality is that you want a stove that provides enough heat when you need it, without becoming a full time job. I like having the ability to run my stove overnight without getting up every 4 hours, and I'm more than willing to sacrifice some small % of efficiency by running less than a full load for part of the season.

 

[vvvv]

so i suggested the extra firebrix which can be removed when colder if u want the bigger stove. when given advice, i ask for scientific explanations foremost.

I disagree - I don't think the insulating value of the additional layer of firebricks have been taken into consideration. The fire itself may burn a little more efficiently, but the efficiency of the stove to heat the surrounding area will be diminished to some degree. It would be like taking a foam coffee cup full of hot coffee and sliding that inside of another coffee cup. Yep, the coffee may stay hotter for a longer period of time, but your fingers are going to stay cooler as well.

heat can only go into the room or out the chimney. stack thermometer will tell the story. some firebrix insulate more than others/cheap ones. 1 side sez soapstone mass is great, other sez dont add mass to a stove? simplified analogies dont explain the science

 

[Jags]

heat can only go into the room or out the chimney. stack thermometer will tell the story.

And that should/could be measured in a ratio. Without doing the scientific analysis to prove it, my bet is that the ratio of heat going up the stack vs. into the room will increase, thus reducing the efficiency of the stove to heat the area (its true intent).

 

[vvvv]

heat can only go into the room or out the chimney. stack thermometer will tell the story.

And that should/could be measured in a ratio. Without doing the scientific analysis to prove it, my bet is that the ratio of heat going up the stack vs. into the room will increase, thus reducing the efficiency of the stove to heat the area (its true intent).

mfr sez maintain stack temp in such a range? my firebox is all brix, above the brix is the steel stove top where it gets hottest & gives off most heat. the idea of EPA stove is to create hhot zone on top so the pile gassifies from the top down & if u have to rely on a bed of coals to burn the wood, might as well burn non epa stove. look at a downdraft gassifying boiler upside down or stand on ur head if its easier & u will find an EPA stove, properly burning

 

[firefighterjake]

This is a pretty interesting discussion for me. My fireplace room is about 12 feet wide, but about 30 feet long. However, my couch/sitting area for the TV is 8-10 feet away from where my insert will go, and I want to make sure I'm burning enough to heat the desired space (about 1600 square feet with plenty of fans to spread hot air)...

I'm very concerned about the trade-off between size, immediate heat throw-off, total heating capacity, and price.

I'm looking at the Lopi 1750, which I can get for $2000 and which should meet my needs, has low emissions, and shouldn't overheat us....but again, the concern is whether it would be TOO small.

If I'm willing to spend another $600-700, I can step up to the Lopi Freedom which supposedly has a higher standard of construction quality and a much higher capacity.

My initial thinking was that it's better to have MORE capacity than needed: I can also choke the fire using the damper control and get longer burns out of less wood while keeping us from overheating. Now I'm wondering if I truly have that level of control or may be fooling myself....or whether I should spend the money up front for the higher quality unit with greater capacity for the future as I open up additional rooms to heating needs when children occur....

Joe

It's worth noting that with many EPA stoves if you "choke" the stove by dialing down the air control you'll actually have more heat from the stove . . . with my Oslo doing so will engage the secondary burn if the stove is up to temp . . . doing so creates the second burn which results in more heat and a decently long burn time. To control the heat in most EPA stoves (especially those without cats where you can go low and slow) you change your loads (full vs. partial loads, size of the wood, species of the wood, etc.)

That said . . . I still advocate figuring out what size stove you need . . . and then going one size larger . . . which seems to work for most folks.

 

[Slow1]

This is a pretty interesting discussion for me. My fireplace room is about 12 feet wide, but about 30 feet long. However, my couch/sitting area for the TV is 8-10 feet away from where my insert will go, and I want to make sure I'm burning enough to heat the desired space (about 1600 square feet with plenty of fans to spread hot air)...

I'm very concerned about the trade-off between size, immediate heat throw-off, total heating capacity, and price.

I'm looking at the Lopi 1750, which I can get for $2000 and which should meet my needs, has low emissions, and shouldn't overheat us....but again, the concern is whether it would be TOO small.

If I'm willing to spend another $600-700, I can step up to the Lopi Freedom which supposedly has a higher standard of construction quality and a much higher capacity.

My initial thinking was that it's better to have MORE capacity than needed: I can also choke the fire using the damper control and get longer burns out of less wood while keeping us from overheating. Now I'm wondering if I truly have that level of control or may be fooling myself....or whether I should spend the money up front for the higher quality unit with greater capacity for the future as I open up additional rooms to heating needs when children occur....

Joe

It's worth noting that with many EPA stoves if you "choke" the stove by dialing down the air control you'll actually have more heat from the stove . . . with my Oslo doing so will engage the secondary burn if the stove is up to temp . . . doing so creates the second burn which results in more heat and a decently long burn time. To control the heat in most EPA stoves (especially those without cats where you can go low and slow) you change your loads (full vs. partial loads, size of the wood, species of the wood, etc.)

That said . . . I still advocate figuring out what size stove you need . . . and then going one size larger . . . which seems to work for most folks.

Yeah - what he said

But to add to it, if you REALLY want to be able to dial down the heat, consider a cat stove for long slow burns. That is where a cat stove excels. Thus if you have a larger stove (defined here as one capable of putting out significantly more heat than you need) and it is a cat stove you can still fill it and then 'turn down the temp' to run it for a longer time and still keep it burning clean. Obviously there is a limit here (depending on the stove) but I hear told that those BK stoves can be turned WAY down and burn for months if you really want to (ok, 48 hours on a load is the real figure but that would seem like months to most burners).

 

[spirilis]

I will say in my Jotul 8 downstairs, when I added thin firebricks to the perimeter of the firebox the overall performance was *much* more consistent. However the secondary air paths for that firebox were plugged up with ash (it goes around the steel plates that compose the main firebox), so this year I'm going to start the shoulder season without them and see how it goes. In that stove putting firebrick around the perimeter reduces the fire's ability to heat the steel plates which are responsible for preheating the secondary air.

 

[flyingpig]

I think it depends on couple of things

1. Will the stove/insert be the primary heat source, or combination with other form (gas, oil, etc.)
- You can go for the smaller stove which pretty much ensure that you'll burn high & clean most of the time if you have other heat source to help when you need more heat capacity. But on the opposite side, the small stove will not cover the heat requirement alone in deep winter if you want to use it as primary. In that case, go with the largest one that can fit your fireplace/bill.

2. Heat output characteristic of the stove you want.
- Generally larger stove can provide higher heat output (BTU/hour) and longer burn time (larger firebox). But if the higher BTU can't be trimmed down, it'll be too hot for you during the milder weather. Some stoves (especially CAT) can slowdown nicely (I've heard a lot from PE & soapstone owners), and some tend to run either full blast, or off (at least I've heard this for Harman Oakwood...pretty stove though). If the "big" stove that you like can be slow down also, I'd go for it. Otherwise I'd go with the smaller one and burn hot.

This is my first year burning too and I've got the FireplaceX 33 elite. Being a non-cat, it tends to be on the "high" side which can kick us out of the room sometime...but not too bad.

I picked the FX33 because as a newbie I don't want to deal with CAT, but if I could do it again, I may look for CAT or soapstone instead for mild weather here. You can search here to find out the characteristic of the stove you're looking for.