BK Ashford 30 install - one last hurdle

[michaelreinard]

Very excited to get a BK Ashford 30 installed at the end of the month. I followed the advice on this forum and had a pro come over and knock out my terracotta liner and run an 30' insulated smooth wall stainless steel flex liner down the masonry chimney. With that, the stove, the trimmings, delivery and an install I've sunk something like $7,600 into this project, which is painful but I felt like I was getting the job done right. Now there appears to be one more hurdle..

In the picture, sticking out of the wall is the 6" liner Tee, which goes through an 8-9" ID terracotta pipe, which is embedded in cinder block and masonry. The chimney is entirely masonry. The lower 2/3rds of the wall has a decorative lining of painted brick to form a hearth pad (not necessary because the wall and floor are masonry). The upper 1/3rd of the wall has a decorative lining of 1" pine boards glued to it.

Today the installer told me I must remove any wood that is within 18" of the Tee because combustibles can't be within 18" of the double wall black pipe. OK, fine, I see why we would want to put more distance between the stove pipe and the decorative boards - it looks a bit charred from the prior owner's wood stove - but if you add 18" to both sides of a 6" pipe, that's an area of 42" by 42", which sounds ridiculous - it would be more than half the boards and look terrible. Further, I only have 10" from the left side of the Tee to the end of the board before it cuts back to the drywall, so that doesn't make their 18" requirement.

Now I know that people use chimney collars to run pipes through walls and ceilings and roofs, which are presumably 16" on center, not 42" on center. Isn't some kind of collar a better option here? Do they make them with depths of 1-2"?

 

[showrguy]

Very excited to get a BK Ashford 30 installed at the end of the month. I followed the advice on this forum and had a pro come over and knock out my terracotta liner and run an 30' insulated smooth wall stainless steel flex liner down the masonry chimney. With that, the stove, the trimmings, delivery and an install I've sunk something like $7,600 into this project, which is painful but I felt like I was getting the job done right. Now there appears to be one more hurdle..

In the picture, sticking out of the wall is the 6" liner Tee, which goes through an 8-9" ID terracotta pipe, which is embedded in cinder block and masonry. The chimney is entirely masonry. The lower 2/3rds of the wall has a decorative lining of painted brick to form a hearth pad (not necessary because the wall and floor are masonry). The upper 1/3rd of the wall has a decorative lining of 1" pine boards glued to it.

Today the installer told me I must remove any wood that is within 18" of the Tee because combustibles can't be within 18" of the double wall black pipe. OK, fine, I see why we would want to put more distance between the stove pipe and the decorative boards - it looks a bit charred from the prior owner's wood stove - but if you add 18" to both sides of a 6" pipe, that's an area of 42" by 42", which sounds ridiculous - it would be more than half the boards and look terrible. Further, I only have 10" from the left side of the Tee to the end of the board before it cuts back to the drywall, so that doesn't make their 18" requirement.

Now I know that people use chimney collars to run pipes through walls and ceilings and roofs, which are presumably 16" on center, not 42" on center. Isn't some kind of collar a better option here? Do they make them with depths of 1-2"?

I dunno why someone has'nt answered your question yet ?? There's certainly a lot smarter people on here than me...

But, I believe distance to cumbustables for double wall pipe is 6", single wall is 18"...
If I'm wrong, I'll deffinately be corrected, lol..

 

[begreen]

You'll need a wall thimble to reduce the clearance requirement, but as noted they are designed for thicker walls. One option would be to remove the wood panels and carry the grey cement block up to the ceiling in that location. Done right it would look quite intentional. Or, assuming a masonry wall behind the panelling, remove the paneling entirely to 18" past the thimble. Paint wall white.

 

[webby3650]

The difference here is you are trying to pass single wall pipe through a combustible wall essentially. The wood needs to be way back from the thimble, it’s seems excessive I know. We have done a few things to remedy this in the past. You could chip the cement block away enough to allow a piece of class A pipe to pass through the wall, allowing the T snout to pass through the inside of the class A. It only needs 2” clearance. This sometimes depends on the liner manufacturer, sometimes the snout won’t pass through the class A. Worth a shot.

 

[begreen]

I thought about that but wondered what supports the class A pipe? Did you use an interior flange or did you chip out all the way back to the chimney and mortar that end in?

 

[bholler]

I thought about that but wondered what supports the class A pipe? Did you use an interior flange or did you chip out all the way back to the chimney and mortar that end in?

You clear out all the way to the chimney and mortar it in

 

[begreen]

7" class A to clear the 6" snout?

 

[bholler]

7" class A to clear the 6" snout?

Yes well usually we would just use a wall passthrough but if need be we would use 7" class a

 

[Ludlow]

Strong candidate for a new stone or brick hearth and backer. Are you handy in any way? Even a massive stone castle was built one stone at a time.

 

[firefirefire]

The part you are looking for is called an "Insul-Flue" from Bernard Dalsin Manufacturing (BDM) In a "to-the-wall configuration. This will allow you to bring single wall connector pipe to the tee snout at 2" clearance. They do not sell consumer direct but your stove dealer will be able to get the parts.

 

[bholler]

The part you are looking for is called an "Insul-Flue" from Bernard Dalsin Manufacturing (BDM) In a "to-the-wall configuration. This will allow you to bring single wall connector pipe to the tee snout at 2" clearance. They do not sell consumer direct but your stove dealer will be able to get the parts.

There are lots of different insulated thimbles available from many different manufacturers. I have found that the olympia one is the easiest to work with.

 

[michaelreinard]

Thanks all - yes, there is a masonry wall behind the 1 inch "paneling". When I started trying to figure this out I didn't know what the part I was looking for but after googling for a while and seeing your suggestions here the wall thimble seems to be the way to go. Seems like my options are:

1. If a certain thimble requires a 14x14" opening, perhaps I could just cut the 14x14" square out of the wood fascia boards, frame out a 14x14" box to give it more depth, and then insert the thimble.
- Potential problem: Would it stick out of the wall too far so that after adding the stovepipe elbow to it the stove sticks out too far into the room? I think I would need to find the most shallow thimble available.

2. Cut the 14x14" hole as above and then chip back the masonry so the thimble fits.
- Potential problem: Messing up the masonry... ugh

3. Pull off all the fascia boards so I have cinder block above the brick. I'm not entirely against this. I could have them install the stove and later cover the cinder blocks with something interesting like slate tile or something like layer of thinset and paint it.
- Potential problem - this still seems to not give me enough clearance from the left side of wall to where it cuts back to masonry.

I let the stove shop know and am seeing what they suggest. I'll keep Insul-Flue in mind but it seems like these could work as well:
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.c...migrated/InsulatedWallThimbleInstructions.pdf
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pdf/Saf-T_Thimble_installation.pdf

 

[Ludlow]

Show us a pic of the whole hearth and wall.

 

[bholler]

Thanks all - yes, there is a masonry wall behind the 1 inch "paneling". When I started trying to figure this out I didn't know what the part I was looking for but after googling for a while and seeing your suggestions here the wall thimble seems to be the way to go. Seems like my options are:

1. If a certain thimble requires a 14x14" opening, perhaps I could just cut the 14x14" square out of the wood fascia boards, frame out a 14x14" box to give it more depth, and then insert the thimble.
- Potential problem: Would it stick out of the wall too far so that after adding the stovepipe elbow to it the stove sticks out too far into the room? I think I would need to find the most shallow thimble available.

2. Cut the 14x14" hole as above and then chip back the masonry so the thimble fits.
- Potential problem: Messing up the masonry... ugh

3. Pull off all the fascia boards so I have cinder block above the brick. I'm not entirely against this. I could have them install the stove and later cover the cinder blocks with something interesting like slate tile or something like layer of thinset and paint it.
- Potential problem - this still seems to not give me enough clearance from the left side of wall to where it cuts back to masonry.

I let the stove shop know and am seeing what they suggest. I'll keep Insul-Flue in mind but it seems like these could work as well:
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.c...migrated/InsulatedWallThimbleInstructions.pdf
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pdf/Saf-T_Thimble_installation.pdf

No the thimble has insulation. Without it you need 18" from the pipe all the way around

 

[michaelreinard]

Sure, this is what it looked like before they put the liner in. It is cinder block from floor to ceiling. The hearth pad is painted brick. The wood paneling is 1" boards glued to the cinder block. Now there is a 6" Olympia Tee sticking out of the hole as you can see in my first post.

 

[webby3650]

So did the installer just leave you with this problem? Did you find out on your own or did they tell you there’s an issue?
I’m shocked they would even install the liner without installing a proper wall thimble or cutting the wood back.

 

[bholler]

So did the installer just leave you with this problem? Did you find out on your own or did they tell you there’s an issue?
I’m shocked they would even install the liner without installing a proper wall thimble or cutting the wood back.

Yeah it is astounding but sadly i see it pretty often

 

[webby3650]

Yeah it is astounding but sadly i see it pretty often

 

[michaelreinard]

Here's a better picture with some of the wood removed - it only took me 2 minutes to remove the boards and I don't care if they go back up.I can paint it or tile it or whatever. It's the distance from the left side of the pipe to the end of the masonry which appears to be my problem - about 9 inches of masonry before it cuts back to the wall.

So it looks like thimble it will be. Would something like this Olympia thimble work? If you look at the PDF the instructions it bolts right to the masonry. It also has some covers and whatnot so presumably it won't look like hell when its done.
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.c...migrated/InsulatedWallThimbleInstructions.pdf

The Tee is 22" from Olympia but it is only sticking out 4.5" from the block face. I don't know if that's long enough. My last stove was an insert so I've never seen how stove pipe connects to these things. Mine will be double wall Amerivent according to the paperwork.

Yea the liner guy put in a liner without mentioning anything about clearances. Also the stove shop sales guy gave me a quote based on the picture and took the order without saying anything about the wood or clearances. Maybe they were both expecting the other guy to solve the problem. At this point I'm just looking for the least destructive and least ugly way to solve the problem while staying safe and within the rules.

 

[bholler]

If i was doing the job i would open up a hole all the way back to the chimney just to be sure there are no combustibles hidden in there then put in a passthrough

 

[Hogwildz]

Install thimble as others advised, cut wood back to needed clearance, and fill in where wood was cut out with a wood look ceramic tile as close to match as the wood as possible. Just a thought.

 

[begreen]

Easiest way out (and least costly) would be either to remove all the wood and paint the masonry wall or carry the grey brick up all the way to the ceiling. If you want a wood panel look there another option would be to tile it with a wood-look tile.
https://www.flooranddecor.com/wood-look-plank-tile
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Flooring-Tile/Wood/N-5yc1vZar0yZ1z0jipd

 

[begreen]

Is the cement block just the width of the chimney or does it continue behind the wood paneling to the right of the chimney? If just the chimney, what about moving the hearth over to center on the chimney, carry the grey brick to cover the cement block and then wood panel on either side of the chimney?

 

[michaelreinard]

The cement block is the whole width of the hearth. It also serves as the base of our fireplace upstairs.

I'm removing all the wood so that's no longer an issue. I think the wood-look tile is a great idea and I may do that down the line. I'm settled on a thimble as well, just need to figure out the right type.

The stove shop suggested one that requires me to chip back into the block so I can get the sleeve around the Tee snout. Something that looks like this insul flue system here: https://dalsinmfg.com/product_overview/insul-flue-wall-pass-through-system/


I'm trying to figure out if I can just use one like this that screws to the face of the block.
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/insulated-chimney-thimble-rigid-pipe-connection.php
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.c...migrated/InsulatedWallThimbleInstructions.pdf

 

[begreen]

No need for the thimble if there are no combustibles present.