BK flue not to code

[Murray01]

If I posted in the wrong forum please move. I chose the BK forum only because it’s a 7” flue that initiated these unplanned renovations.

Insurance company wants a WETT Inspection, initially I thought no problem just replace the old beat up flue and chimney. Started digging into the owner/installation manual plus had a conversation(phone) with the WETT inspector. As I was explaining my setup to the inspector as soon as I got to the 7” to 6” flue reducer he stated that I just failed the WETT inspection. He then asked what manufacturer made the flue, Class A chimney and ceiling support, I couldn’t answer. If they ALL aren’t made by the same manufacturer then installation will fail. What I have to do is 7” single wall flue will be replaced with 7” double walled, ceiling support for 6” Class A will be replaced with a 7” ceiling support and the 6” Class A chimney will be replaced with 7” Class A chimney. Funny how what I thought would be a small job turns into a complete replacement of all components. We have a contractor tentatively coming out Sunday to have a look at the job. Due to the nature of the original installation plus a bedroom addition many years ago this is the time to move the stove to simplify the roof exit away from the valley.

Below is the current noncompliant set up. Ideally we would like to keep the stove where it is but on the next picture you’ll see how it interferes with the valley. I’ve done lots of work to stop the leaking roof but haven’t been able to stop all the water ingress 100% of the time.



Picture below is the current install.


Left of the valley is the master bedroom(2002), right of the valley is the main cabin(mid 1970)

All the renovations/additions were done by Grampa over the years, handy guy with tool, self taught carpenter.

We have a few options and this is where I’m hoping forum members can offer suggestions/criticisms.

Option 1: Leave the stove where it is and hopefully find a roof flashing with a smaller footprint. One concern is with a 7” chimney going thru 2 roof lines will likely cause clearance issues and trigger major work with roof trusses.

Option 2: Move the stove where the black chair is sitting and bring the chimney straight up avoiding the valley.

Option 3: Move the stove where the black chair is sitting and sacrifice the window to exit the stove out the window and up thru the eves.

Thank you for reading this long winded post.

 

[EbS-P]

Option 4??? Can you use 45 degree offsets to move the roof exit to a single pitch?

 

[gthomas785]

Yeah you could really just offset it higher up the roof (same rafter/truss bay) and you'd avoid the valley. Class A chimney can have either 30 or 60 degree elbows.

 

[GG Woody]

There is a ton to unpack on this one...
I wouldn't want a 7" chimney with most stove outlets being 6", especially if the WETT guy doesn't like reducers. I bet he doesn't like increasers either, at a later date when someone tries to connect a 6" stove to the 7"
The way you worded it, it sounds like the WETT inspector wants to fail you? Find one that wants to pass you?
I didn't think that the chimney connector manufacturer needed to match the chimney/thimble manufacturer. I'm not sure if that is what you thought in your post.
I agree, offset it in the attic.

 

[begreen]

Yeah you could really just offset it higher up the roof (same rafter/truss bay) and you'd avoid the valley. Class A chimney can have either 30 or 60 degree elbows.

Class A can have either 15 or 30º elbows, but I don't see the offset being in the class A chimney pipe. It would be in the stove pipe instead, no?

I wouldn't want a 7" chimney with most stove outlets being 6", especially if the WETT guy doesn't like reducers. I bet he doesn't like increasers either, at a later date when someone tries to connect a 6" stove to the 7"

Agreed. If this is a redo, do it in less expensive and compliant 6". Also, don't use a rubber or silicone flex flashing. Use a stainless flashing meant for metal roofs.

 

[gthomas785]

Class A can have either 15 or 30º elbows, but I don't see the offset being in the class A chimney pipe. It would be in the stove pipe instead, no?

Sorry, brain fart, I was picturing a 15 degree elbow in my head but for some reason said 60. I was picturing the offset in the attic, in the class A section, to keep the ceiling thimble above the stove.

 

[Murray01]

Yeah you could really just offset it higher up the roof (same rafter/truss bay) and you'd avoid the valley. Class A chimney can have either 30 or 60 degree elbows.

There isn’t enough room under the roof to put any elbows and run Class A upslope to exit higher up.

 

[Murray01]

There is a ton to unpack on this one...
I wouldn't want a 7" chimney with most stove outlets being 6", especially if the WETT guy doesn't like reducers. I bet he doesn't like increasers either, at a later date when someone tries to connect a 6" stove to the 7"
The way you worded it, it sounds like the WETT inspector wants to fail you? Find one that wants to pass you?
I didn't think that the chimney connector manufacturer needed to match the chimney/thimble manufacturer. I'm not sure if that is what you thought in your post.
I agree, offset it in the attic.

The WETT inspector is a super nice guy, he has spent 45 minutes on the phone with me at no charge for consulting fees. He want to ensure I reroute/modify/completely rebuild to code the first time.

As per the Owner/Installation manual, BK clearly states the I must have the same diameter pipe from stove collar to chimney cap. The stove was tested and certified with 7” chimney therefore the WETT inspector has to follow the manufacturer’s instructions. In the manual it also states that reducers or enlargers are not allowed. Should we replace the stove then we would replace it with a BK Princess (Canadian Edition with 7” chimney) or another brand that allow a reducer.

I can only use, for chimney/stove pipe/ceiling support a limited selection that BK has approved for use. I think I’m reading this wrong or don’t understand the term “Residential Close Clearance”

 

[Murray01]

Point #2. The manual does mention 7” chimney for Canadian use so substitute 8” for 7”. Bottom line my existing 6” Class A chimney is not allowed for my 7” stove collar.

 

[Murray01]

I read in the manual(I can’t find now but will keep looking) BK only allows two 45 or one 90 degree bend, I think BK was referring to stove pipe.

 

[gthomas785]

There isn’t enough room under the roof to put any elbows and run Class A upslope to exit higher up.

Oh yeah I see now that the ceiling inside isn't flat. In that case I would move the thimble to where it needs to be and add two 45 degree elbows in the stovepipe to reach it. Too bad that means tearing into the ceiling

 

[Murray01]

One more picture to help clarify why I THINK I have to move the stovepipe and chimney to exit thru the window.

The black line represents the original exterior wall of the cabin which is now an interior wall. Left of the line is bedroom, right of the line is main cabin living room with a cathedral ceiling(no attic space). The ladder is sitting in the valley. I don’t think there is enough room to put any offsets in the bedroom attic space to allow the chimney to be pushed upslope.

 

[gthomas785]

The pipe only needs 2" of clearance. The question is can YOU fit in there to do the work

 

[Murray01]

Oh yeah I see now that the ceiling inside isn't flat. In that case I would move the thimble to where it needs to be and add two 45 degree elbows in the stovepipe to reach it. Too bad that means tearing into the ceiling

In all likelihood the roof and chimney will have to get torn apart no matter what I decide. Sacrificing the window means the roof and ceiling will have to get patched without having to deal with rafters that will be perpendicular to each other. Remember Grandpa wasn’t a carpenter and he would have built around the existing chimney when he added the bedroom(left of the black line). Below is a picture that I edited to draw in what I’m thinking you’re referring to. The ceiling slope is about 30 degrees from horizontal so two 45’s wouldn’t work?

 

[Murray01]

The pipe only needs 2" of clearance. The question is can YOU fit in there to do the work

Take the roof and ceiling off, rejig any rafters then follow the existing route with 11” outside diameter compared to the existing 10” outside diameter. This is why I’m getting a contractor carpenter, he should know what can get moved and how and where to move any obstacles. To answer your question, I think with the roof and ceiling off maybe someone can fit/reach in.

Would need a much smaller roof flashing kit to get out of the valley and as mentioned above get rid of the rubber boot.

 

[gthomas785]

In all likelihood the roof and chimney will have to get torn apart no matter what I decide. Sacrificing the window means the roof and ceiling will have to get patched without having to deal with rafters that will be perpendicular to each other. Remember Grandpa wasn’t a carpenter and he would have built around the existing chimney when he added the bedroom(left of the black line). Below is a picture that I edited to draw in what I’m thinking you’re referring to. The ceiling slope is about 30 degrees from horizontal so two 45’s wouldn’t work?
View attachment 338737

I was suggesting going up the other slope, essentially toward the camera in this picture or to the right as you face the stove. If I'm seeing it right, there's gotta be a space above this ceiling since the roof and ceiling slopes are perpendicular to each other. But if there's no access, it would be hard to do without a bunch of demolition.

The ceiling may not be sloped at 45 degrees, but you can still use two 45 degree elbows to go from vertical to vertical. The sloped piece just won't be parallel with the ceiling.

 

[Murray01]

.

I was suggesting going up the other slope, essentially toward the camera in this picture or to the right as you face the stove. If I'm seeing it right, there's gotta be a space above this ceiling since the roof and ceiling slopes are perpendicular to each other. But if there's no access, it would be hard to do without a bunch of demolition.

The ceiling may not be sloped at 45 degrees, but you can still use two 45 degree elbows to go from vertical to vertical. The sloped piece just won't be parallel with the ceiling.

First of all I’d like to Thank You and the rest of the posters helping me get my head wrapped around my situation before the contractor shows up tomorrow. Very much appreciated.

Picture below is what I think your talking about. That might work, it would push the roof exit upslope away from the valley, the further upslope the more room to work between the roofs, whatever rafters/roof supports encountered would be something Grampa would have “field fitted” to tie into the original roof. Stove stays where it is. My wife won’t like the stove pipe angling across to a new exit but at least it’s an option to consider. We had 10 mornings we woke up to -40C or colder this winter so if see wants to keep the window she may have to live with it. We’ll see what the contractor’s suggests.

Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

It's good to skip the window exit. Besides making the place look like tobacco road, it introduces 90º turns in an already short flue. That's going to weaken draft. Apologies for not asking earlier, but to verify, what is the exact BK model stove, the PEJ-1003? I ask because back then they were requiring 8" for both the Princess and the King. The modern Princess is now a 6" flue stove.

 

[Murray01]

It's good to skip the window exit. Besides making the place look like tobacco road, it introduces 90º turns in an already short flue. That's going to weaken draft. Apologies for not asking earlier, but to verify, what is the exact BK model stove, the PEJ-1003? I ask because back then they were requiring 8" for both the Princess and the King. The modern Princess is now a 6" flue stove.

PE-1003. Made in Canada hence the 7” stove collar. I was told by BK to use the PEJ-1003 Manual. Manufactured in 1999. Do you know if the modern Canadian made Princess are 6”?

 

[Murray01]

PE-1003. Made in Canada hence the 7” stove collar. I was told by BK to use the PEJ-1003 Manual. Manufactured in 1999. Do you know if the modern Canadian made Princess are 6”?

On their website shows 6” so I’d assume it would be 6” for Canada.

 

[begreen]

On their website shows 6” so I’d assume it would be 6” for Canada.

Yes, I think only their King is 8" now.

 

[Murray01]

Yes, I think only their King is 8" now.

Thanks. Starting to wonder if I shouldn’t bite the bullet and replace the old stove with a new one. Seems senseless spending a bunch of money on a 7” stove collar. I know the 6” fits, the money I potentially save on construction can go towards a new stove. That stove has keep my in-laws warm for 15+ years and us for our first winter in Saskatchewan.

 

[begreen]

That would be my leaning. If the old stove sold for $700-1000 cdn, that would also help towards the costs.