BK Princess Insert - flue liner, shroud, fresh air inlet

[Fiddlerbob]

I'm thinking of having a BK dealer install a BK Princess insert and insulated flue liner. Their sales guy was very nonchalant about answering my questions so I'm looking for other opinions.

BK gives minimum dimensions for the fireplace in order for the insert to fit - 25 1/4 x 23 1/2. My fireplace is 37 x 26 1/2. So the insert fits but how in the heck do they attach the flue liner after stuffing the insert into the fireplace? Can the shroud be fitted after attaching the flue? Connect it from inside the stove? Do they cheat on how they connect it - no screws or sealant?

My fireplace is faced with large irregular rock and the shroud would look pretty awful pressed against it, leaving big gaps. I want the insert to fit further into the fireplace, I have plenty of depth available. I called BK and they don't make custom shrouds so I would need to get a local sheetmetal guy to either modify the BK shroud or custom make one. Again, can the shroud be fitted after the install and what's the experience of people making and fitting custom shrouds?

I understand the Princess Insert gets it's fresh air from the back side of the stove, ie, from inside the fireplace. If I make the shroud such that I can get an airtight seal between the insert and the fireplace, I can utilize a fireplace clean-out door that is outside the house to supply fresh outside air to the insert. Good idea? Bad idea?

Lastly, I might not have the total recommended fireproof clearance in front of the stove. Can I use a hearth rug to make up the difference?

Thanks, Bob

 

[gastone21]

Did you arrive via adv?

The shroud will be installed separate from the stove. They’ll be able to pull the insert out a bit to hook up to the liner if the 3” difference is too tight. Afterwards the shroud goes on. If the large shroud isn’t wide enough, a sheet of sheet metal can be cut to extend. Fairly normal. As far as making up the difference with the stone, caulk might be your best bet.

 

[Fiddlerbob]

Gastone 21 - thanks for the reply!

Did I arrive via adv? I don't know what that means...

There won't be a lot of wiggle room to pull the insert out to hook up the flue. The insert will need to be almost fully in the fireplace before they can hook it up.

It would probably take about 20 tubes of caulk to fill the gaps between the rocks on the fireplace and the caulk would likely look worse than the gaps. A custom shroud could be made to look very clean but it seems to me from the installation manual that the shroud screws fasten from the back side of the insert and therefore the shroud needs to be attached before stuffing the insert into the fireplace...

 

[Fiddlerbob]

Hi All,

I'm still looking for more comments. Anybody got any more advice?

Thanks, Bob

 

[kennyp2339]

So the insert fits but how in the heck do they attach the flue liner after stuffing the insert into the fireplace?

The cat will need to be taken out, by-pass will be opened and the flue will have an appliance adapter that attaches from the inside of the stove, tight fit, but can happen

I can utilize a fireplace clean-out door that is outside the house to supply fresh outside air to the insert. Good idea? Bad idea?

Yes, and you dont really need the air tight fit, since the ash clean out goes down instead of up and there's more then likely a clean out door on the outside of the chimney I dont think you'll get that cold draft effect, unless there are other air hogging appliances inside your house., also there is a shroud adapter that goes on, it should cover most of the hole.

As far as customer surrounds there have been some creative posts here, one of the best I've seen was a member (I forget the person) made a customer surround using tube steel and metal mesh, all painted black, doesnt sound good on paper, but the pictures posts were astonishing, perhaps a picture of the fireplace can help here, at least to see the offsets needed due to the rock face.

 

[Fiddlerbob]

KennyP:

Thanks for the input! It's encouraging to hear that the flue should be connectable from inside the insert.

My understanding, from talking to BK in Walla Walla, is that there isn't a way to connect an outside air source to the Princess insert. Therefore, I thought that I would need to 'seal' off the insert from the house so that outside air can't penetrate the house but that the insert would pull air in from outside when in use.

I have searched this website looking for Princess shroud modifications but couldn't find any. My concern is that the installation manual says to attach the shroud before stuffing the insert into the fireplace and the diagram they have shows the attachment occurring from the back side of the insert. (Although that diagram doesn't make sense to me, I think it is wrong). I would want to put the shroud on last and attach it from the front.

In the pic of the old insert the insert's outside edge is at the gold trim. I would want to make a shroud for the Princess that mimics the current insert. You can see how the rough stone would be an issue with the BK shroud.

Thanks, Bob

 

[black smoke signals]

Bob this is a quote you typed in so I’m wanting to know if you are capping the top of your masonry chimney where the liner exit the chimney? Pictures would. Not sure I understand quote——————————————- I thought that I would need to 'seal' off the insert from the house so that outside air can't penetrate the house but that the insert would pull air in from outside when in use.

 

[kennyp2339]

Bob this is a quote you typed in so I’m wanting to know if you are capping the top of your masonry chimney where the liner exit the chimney? Pictures would. Not sure I understand quote——————————————- I thought that I would need to 'seal' off the insert from the house so that outside air can't penetrate the house but that the insert would pull air in from outside when in use.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the front surround, since he's using the ash clean out at the base of the fireplace as a fresh air intake.
To mitigate this he can stuff rock wool insulation in the rear of the unit to keep any fresh air from seeping through and out the front, but I dont think that it would be a big deal since the ash clean out is more then likely holding static air and will only draw air in as the fire needs it, not like an open window with a draft.
Also now thinking about it, OP you may want to call BK on the stuffing insulation between the unit and fireplace, just to make sure that the T-stat function wont be affected.
The top of the chimney will inadvertently be sealed off by the liner anchor cap - flat plate with the anchoring piece that the liner attaches to.

 

[Fiddlerbob]

Black Smoke Signals: KennyP nailed it. The Princess insert does not have a fresh air kit available for it but I figured if the chimney is sealed at the top with the flue plate and I sealed the insert off from the house then the air intake on the backside of the insert could draw in outside air through a modified ash clean-out door that is on the outside of the chimney and below the level of the fireplace floor. While KennyP says we probably don't need to seal off the insert, we do live in Indiana, which we prefer to call Windyana, so it might be good to seal it off. I'll take KennyP's advice and call BK to question them on that.

 

[black smoke signals]

Bob Ken I guess I have something to learn here I was assuming that the intake air entered from the t/stat which is on the side near the front of the insert. Is this possible to install a offset adapter to move the insert toward the inside of the room? Then use a concrete saw for the rocks to get flat sides or do like Ken suggest pipe and screen for irregular sides. The farther you move the stove to the inside you lose radiant heat the insert was designed to stick out to take advantage of the heat.

 

[Fiddlerbob]

Black smoke signals: My current thought is that I will position the insert so that the normal upper shroud would be aligned with the steel 'lintel' that can be seen in the first and second pictures I posted above. Thus, the insert would 'project' into the room as it is designed to do. Then, a custom shroud would be fit. The side shrouds would attach to the insert in a normal manner but then be bent 90 degrees rearward and then 90 degrees outward again so that it butts up against the steel strip that can be seen in the second picture. That steel strip is to the left of the gold trim and is part of the fireplace and not the part of the current insert. The top shroud would rise upward and then bend 90 degrees rearward. Gaps between the shroud and fireplace would be packed with the woven material used as stove door gaskets - same as I did for the current insert. That still leaves the bottom of the stove that needs to be sealed with more roping. This way, I would not need to shave any of the rock work down. I'll ask BK if that might affect operation of the thermostat.

Personally, I think the rock work is kind of ugly and if I had the money and ambition I'd tear it all down and do something different...

 

[Fiddlerbob]

OK, I called BK in Canada (they manufacture the stove) and they state that the Princess Insert's air intake is on the front side of the stove and not the back side. I had previously been told back side. So, can't do the outside air intake that I had been planning. At least I won't have to fuss about sealing the stove to the fireplace now... Bob