BK Princess too small or King too large, I must be Goldilocks

[MTY]

I have been burning wood for 40 some odd years. From barrel stoves, trash burners, parlor stoves, the earliest
Earthstoves, a Fisher and currently a BK King. I am heating 2700' with an additional stove (Hearthstone) in the master bedroom. The Hearthstone usually is lit one week a year, but not at all this year.

I really like the BK, but am building a new place that is well insulated. It has a lot of glass, but there is R60 in the ceiling. This place is two floors, one of which is a basement. The new stove is going in living room. The floor it is on is 1700'. I am not concerned about heating the basement.

I am vacilating between the Princess and the King for this place. I want enough heat, but do not want to be driven out.

I have no near neighbors, and a week long power outage is always a possibility, so a good stove and a gravity fed water system are necessary.

I absolutely love the Hearthstone, but Earthstove got me hooked on the thermostat.

Princess or King? And a reason to back that up please. TIA

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Based on the description I would opt for the King Ultra. It can run at low output but will have the reserves needed for very cold nights. The large glass area is going to lose a lot of heat and 2700 cu ft is a large space.

Note that woodstoves are not allowed in bedrooms by code. There may be an exception under certain circumstances, but get that approved by the inspector and your insurance before proceeding.

 

[kennyp2339]

Considering both stoves can be turned down to basically 10,000 btu's an hour both should supply the same desired heat, it becomes more of a volume thing, how long do you want to burn, since your in the west I'd go king, burning softer woods you can get more in, also you guys get some pretty knarly weather, 40's one day them -40's the next.. good to be prepared.

 

[MTY]

Note,
Current house is 2700' with two stoves, new house I am placing stove in is 1700' with one stove.

Current master bedroom with stove is 28X28 with a couch, club chair, & desk in addition to bedroom furniture. It has two outside exit doors. Stove was approved when the place was built.

Current house mentioned only to show that King pretty well heats 2700' and I am curious about using one to heat only 1700'.

 

[begreen]

In that case the Princess would work. Maybe also look at the Sirocco 30?

What R value will the glass wall have? Will there be any insulated shades for very cold nights?

 

[pjohnson]

I've got a king ultra in a small just under 1000 square foot cabin. Its an older cabin not well insulated but does have insulation. I went with a king as I had an existing 8 inch flue. I was concerned that it would be way over kill buts its been perfectly controllable even on 40 degree days. I do like the extra large fire box, don't have to stuff it full just throw a few logs in every 12 hours.

 

[MTY]

No neighbors equals no curtains. I have not had window coverings for many years, and the new place is more remote than the current place. The new place is probably close to 2 miles from the nearest neighbor, and sits on just under 40 acres.

The current place is only on an acre and a half. There were no neighbors years ago. Now the area is getting crowded. At least it seems that way to us. Company thinks we currently live in the hinterlands.


New windows are:
U-Value = 0.27
SHGC = 0.2
VLT = 0.48
STC = 26

This place should be fairly energy efficient. The soffits are 7' wide, shading the windows in the summer.

I want to get the stove in early for warmth while interior framing and to help dry the sheet rock mud.

 

[Rearscreen]

Make sure you go with Low-E glass.

Low-E glass has a microscopically thin, transparent coating—it is much thinner than a human hair—thatreflects long-wave infrared energy (or heat). ... The silver low-e coating reflects the interior temperaturesback inside, keeping the room warm or cold.

 

[MTY]

Make sure you go with Low-E glass.

Low-E glass has a microscopically thin, transparent coating—it is much thinner than a human hair—thatreflects long-wave infrared energy (or heat). ... The silver low-e coating reflects the interior temperaturesback inside, keeping the room warm or cold.

They are Low E+. Three coatings, krypton/argon with super spacer.

 

[begreen]

The glazing will be the primary heat loss. I was thinking insulated curtains or shades for heat retention, not privacy. Is the goal to heat 24/7 with wood or more as a supplement to central heating?

 

[Highbeam]

Reading carefully your new home is 3400 sf with the stove on the upper 1700 sf floor with vast windows and tall ceiling. You need a king.

 

[MTY]

I've got a king ultra in a small just under 1000 square foot cabin. Its an older cabin not well insulated but does have insulation. I went with a king as I had an existing 8 inch flue. I was concerned that it would be way over kill buts its been perfectly controllable even on 40 degree days. I do like the extra large fire box, don't have to stuff it full just throw a few logs in every 12 hours.

If it starts out at say 25-30 degrees in the morning, and goes to 55-60 by afternoon, does it make the place too warm?

Under these conditions, say I leave the house for work and get back ten hours later, I most likely will be opening windows to cool the house down.

 

[begreen]

Reading carefully your new home is 3400 sf with the stove on the upper 1700 sf floor with vast windows and tall ceiling. You need a king.

The stove is only heating 1700 sq ft. not the basement. Either would work.

 

[kennyp2339]

If it starts out at say 25-30 degrees in the morning, and goes to 55-60 by afternoon, does it make the place too warm?

Under these conditions, say I leave the house for work and get back ten hours later, I most likely will be opening windows to cool the house down.

And get fresh air into the place (win win) lol

 

[MTY]

The glazing will be the primary heat loss. I was thinking insulated curtains or shades for heat retention, not privacy. Is the goal to heat 24/7 with wood or more as a supplement to central heating?

Primary heat, 24/7. I have heated this way almost exclusively since 1977, for the most part without window coverings. I went 16 years in one house with no other heat source.

 

[Highbeam]

The stove is only heating 1700 sq ft. not the basement. Either would work.

The king would work better. These are cat stoves and both can be turned down to nearly the same low output. Unless he’s insulating between floors I would expect this place to need more heat than a 1700 sf home.

Plus, windows and tall ceilings. When have you ever heard of a king being too much heat? People put them in mobile homes!

 

[jetsam]

I would normally just say 'King, it goes pretty low', but in this case the OP is presumably well familiar with exactly how low the King goes, since he already has one, and is still concerned.

The princess does go lower than the King. But if I was choosing, I'd still go King- 1700sf, big glass room- I think you'll have Firebox Size Shock if you go from 4.5 to 2.5!

 

[jetsam]

If it starts out at say 25-30 degrees in the morning, and goes to 55-60 by afternoon, does it make the place too warm?

Under these conditions, say I leave the house for work and get back ten hours later, I most likely will be opening windows to cool the house down.

Not at all. You check the weather before you leave the house or go to bed, and set the thermostat appropriately. The whole thing takes me less than 30 seconds, 2 or 3 minutes if I need to add wood. No babysitting in either case. It's not like running a tube stove or smoke dragon that way.

 

[jetsam]

Plus, windows and tall ceilings. When have you ever heard of a king being too much heat? People put them in mobile homes!

I'd want a King too if I lived in a metal box with R6 insulation.

 

[Highbeam]

I'd want a King too if I lived in a metal box with R6 insulation.

My home has r5 fiberglass insulation! Built in 1963. There are several levels of quality offered in what is known as a mobile home. Often the insulation and air sealing is superior to stick built alternatives.

I have replaced lots of the r5 with r15 but I’m not about to tear off Sheetrock for just that upgrade. Air sealing is far more important.

 

[MTY]

Ceilings are 8' in kitchen and living room. The rest are 7' 4".

I want the place to be easy to take care of, easy to heat, and the necessities of life all on one floor.

This place started out as an old farm house. I raised it and put a basement under it. Then I put an addition on it. The addition is where the stove is going. The addition has the 8' ceiling and is on an insulated 4' conditioned crawl space.

The farm house ceilings were 7' 4" to begin with. It is being stripped to the studs, all new plumbing, wiring, insulation and sheet rock is going in. The soffits are aluminum, the roof metal, and the siding will be standing seam board and batten metal.

It was originally framed with rough cut 2X4's, so the original structure will get a 1/2' of foam before the batts go in. The new portion is 2x6 construction.

The original floor joists are rough cut 2x6 spanning 24'. I raised the house 10', put 9' walls in the basement, placed two glu lam beams under the rough cut 2X6 joists, and lowered the house onto the beams and walls. The ceiling will be dropped to 8' in the basement. There is 2" foam for under the basement floor. Half the basement walls are daylight, framed in 2X6 and insulated.

And the only real puzzler as I work through this project is whether or not a King will require the windows to be open most of the winter.

 

[Highbeam]

Ceilings are 8' in kitchen and living room. The rest are 7' 4".

I want the place to be easy to take care of, easy to heat, and the necessities of life all on one floor.

This place started out as an old farm house. I raised it and put a basement under it. Then I put an addition on it. The addition is where the stove is going. The addition has the 8' ceiling and is on an insulated 4' conditioned crawl space.

The farm house ceilings were 7' 4" to begin with. It is being stripped to the studs, all new plumbing, wiring, insulation and sheet rock is going in. The soffits are aluminum, the roof metal, and the siding will be standing seam board and batten metal.

It was originally framed with rough cut 2X4's, so the original structure will get a 1/2' of foam before the batts go in. The new portion is 2x6 construction.

The original floor joists are rough cut 2x6 spanning 24'. I raised the house 10', put 9' walls in the basement, placed two glu lam beams under the rough cut 2X6 joists, and lowered the house onto the beams and walls. The ceiling will be dropped to 8' in the basement. There is 2" foam for under the basement floor. Half the basement walls are daylight, framed in 2X6 and insulated.

And the only real puzzler as I work through this project is whether or not a King will require the windows to be open most of the winter.

Wow, that’s such a unique home and a lot of work. I have to wonder if you would have been better off building new.

With the new information I feel better about you installing the smaller princess but I think you have the experience to know best.

Note that you need 15’ of all vertical chimney above the stove to meet the new installation requirements. Old single story homes often make that difficult.

 

[MTY]

My home has r5 fiberglass insulation! Built in 1963. There are several levels of quality offered in what is known as a mobile home. Often the insulation and air sealing is superior to stick built alternatives.

I have replaced lots of the r5 with r15 but I’m not about to tear off Sheetrock for just that upgrade. Air sealing is far more important.

Unless you have experienced it, insulation and air sealing are not truly appreciated.

In 77 I purchased an old house. It had a free standing oil stove in the dining room and a trash burner in the kitchen. The first winter I got up in the morning and went to the bathroom. When my shins started getting wet I paid closer attention to what was going on. The water in the bowl had a layer of ice on it. I put a Coleman lantern in the tub each night and closed the bathroom door until I could come I with a better plan.

All the plants in the house froze. This is when I bought the Earthstove. The prior owners must have been tougher than me.

I would go through 7-8 cords of wood to heat about 1300'. You could fly a kite in the living room on a windy day.

I replaced the windows, added storm doors and insulated. Wood consumption dropped to 3 cords. The next year I added a cat to the Earthstove. It sat between the top of the stove and the pipe. It cut wood consumption approximately 1/2 cord per year.

The insulation helped with wood consumption, but stopping the drafts is what made it comfortable. I heated that old house with the Earthstove for 16 years.

 

[MTY]

Wow, that’s such a unique home and a lot of work. I have to wonder if you would have been better off building new.

With the new information I feel better about you installing the smaller princess but I think you have the experience to know best.

Note that you need 15’ of all vertical chimney above the stove to meet the new installation requirements. Old single story homes often make that difficult.

The house was free. It had sat empty for 10 years. It was solid, but ugly. A bear was living in the old dug basement. I had to evict her and her cub. Actually, I just sealed it up after they left for the spring.

I expect to finish up about $70-$75 per square foot. I am at $40 now, dried in, roofed and windowed. And I enjoy the work.

If I go out close to the peak, I should need about 4' above the roof line to hit 15' of stack.

 

[jetsam]

The house was free. It had sat empty for 10 years. It was solid, but ugly. A bear was living in the old dug basement. I had to evict her and her cub. Actually, I just sealed it up after they left for the spring.

I expect to finish up about $70-$75 per square foot. I am at $40 now, dried in, roofed and windowed. And I enjoy the work.

If I go out close to the peak, I should need about 4' above the roof line to hit 15' of stack.

@tarzan : We have here a thread in which someone fought bears barehanded as part of a remodeling project.

We are going to need you to either step up with a better story, or be dethroned as Hearth's manliest....